KE4MAE: PROCEED WITH CAUTION

[NR9R]

Whenever I enter into a transaction involving amateur radio equipment I usually check this forum for any feedback regarding the other party. I also place their callsign into an internet search engine to see if any other pertinent information shows up. Since I found no information regarding Clifton Bratcher, KE4MAE, I though it would be useful for me to post a description of the bizarre and distressing experience I have had with this gentleman. Here is a brief summary of the events:

On 4/29/07 I called Clifton on the phone after he posted the following ad:

I have a 746 for sale work good. I have got book that go with the radio no box.just like new.I have a tuner l d g at-7000. the raido has 2 meter +al H F band. I will sale For $700.00 + shiping, I will take us postle mong morder.Are chack will after check clear bank.

After talking, we agreed on a price and payment method and I explained to Clifton that I would send him my shipping info via email so that he has it in writing. I immediately sent him the following email:

Clifton,

We just spoke on the phone.

I'll get you a money order for $XXX in the mail tomorrow and send it to:

Clifton D Bratcher
133 Iron Dr
Frankfort KY 40601
USA

When it arrives please ship super-packed (double boxed) and insured to:

Anthony Rick
C/O The UPS Store
4230 N Oakland Ave
Milwaukee, WI 53211

Thank you!

Anthony
AA9OC
414-XXX-XXXX

The next day I sent him a USPS money order and sent him an email to let him know. Here is the email I received in response:

I,m sorry i try to e-mail you back i did not have a good e-mail address are
a good call num. their when i get you money ordder i will sent it back to
you

Me:

Hi Clifton,

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You will send my money order back to me?

ar

Clifton:

i try to e-mail you back my email keep coming back to me i will sent your
your money back i sold it to the next man

After receiving this message I called him on the phone. He accused me of giving him a phony call sign and email address and that I was trying to scam him. Finally I asked him what the callsign and email address was that he thought I had given him but he could not tell me. At the end of the conversation he agreed to return my money order overnight and reimburse me for the cost of the money order and express mail. When I received an email confirmation that the money order had been delivered to his residence I called him immediately. This time he had forgotten about the reimbursement and sending it back to me overnight. He even casually tried to end the conversation saying, "maybe I'll just send you the radio. I haven't received the check from the other guy." My answer was "NO WAY" and I didn't even press him about reimbursing be. At this point I will just settle for getting my money back.

That afternoon I received an email tracking notice from USPS showing that my money order was being returned. I will follow up when it gets to me.

At one point Clifton did forward me an LY2 callsign and an email address, boris@XXXXX.com, explaining that this is what I had given him (for some reason he didn't have trouble responding via email to tell me that he sold the radio).

I don't believe that Clifton is out to take anyone's money and I do believe that my money order will arrive. I can forgive any confusion that may have occurred in trying to email me. What I am holding Clifton responsible for is the poor judgment in dealing with the situation. If a week had gone by and he had not heard from me or received a check I can understand concluding that it was a nil sale. In Clifton's case, it took him 24 hrs to conclude this. Never did we consider that I may ACTUALLY be mailing him, like we agreed to on the phone.

I hope the other HAM who sent him a check has a better experience than me. It would also be helpful for this HAM to post his/her experience when the transceiver arrives.

Anthony
AA9OC

[NR9R]

Thank God! The money order has been returned.

One think I learned from this experience is that a USPS money order leaves no protection for the buyer. Once it is in the mail there is no cancellation that can occur in the event that it is sent to the wrong address or information arises that would cause the buyer to change his/her mind. It may be wise for sellers to be more opened to personal checks. At least this way both parties SHARE the risk. In my situation it would have been a lot less stressful if I knew I could cancel payment.

[K4ICL]

An alternative to a US Post Office money order is to use a bank money order drawn on your bank. It is treated same as cash but, if it should get lost, your bank can cancel the money order and refund your account.

Check with your bank to see what their policies are, first.

K4ICL

[VE3TMT]

"I have a 746 for sale work good. I have got book that go with the radio no box.just like new.I have a tuner l d g at-7000. the raido has 2 meter +al H F band. I will sale For $700.00 + shiping, I will take us postle mong morder ???.Are chack will after check clear bank.Again ???"

Seriously, why respond to an ad like that in the first place????

[N8QBY]

I agree with VE3TMT. Why would anyone buy from someone who sends in an ad like that? That is just asking for problems. If someone spells like that, there is a good chance that the e-mail that you send will be confusing to that person. It might not be intentional but a few red flags should have gone up on that one. It does have a happy ending though, and that is the main thing.

[NR9R]

I agree with VE3TMT. Why would anyone buy from someone who sends in an ad like that? That is just asking for problems. If someone spells like that, there is a good chance that the e-mail that you send will be confusing to that person. It might not be intentional but a few red flags should have gone up on that one. It does have a happy ending though, and that is the main thing.

Ha! I agree with both of you. After speaking to Clifton on the phone he appears to be an elderly gentleman so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and tried not to judge him by his emailing skills. In retrospect, however, when one considers that the seller is also entrusted to fill out the shipping form without error, remember to include any accessories, pack it well, and perform other acts which require a degree of mental functioning, the sentence structure of the email is telling. After this experience I am a bit more critical with my judgements and whether the seller can form a cohesive thought through email weighs heavily.

As for other payment options, I will now use the payment system through my bank. As pointed out above, this comes with fraud protection and the bank will reimburse funds lost whereas the US Postal Service could essentially care less.

73

Anthony

[N9LCD]

Most banks don't sell or issue money orders drawn on the selling/issuing bank.

What you get is a money order issued and supported by a third-party payment service. Just like a money order bought at a currency exchange.

The terms on the money orders (expletive deleted) ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE TO USE THE U.S.P.S. TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE ISSUER/SERVICER. YOU'RE GENERALLY REQUIRED TO WAIT 30-DAYS TO GET A REPLACEMENT/REFUND.

CHECK THE TERMS BEFORE YOU BUY!!!

Jerry

N9LCD

[K4ICL]

Most banks don't sell or issue money orders drawn on the selling/issuing bank.

My bank does. Check with you bank, first!

K4ICL

[N9LCD]

The thrust of my comment was:

KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AND READ THE FINE PRINT!

No form of payment is perfect in every situation. Each payment has its unique drawbacks and limitations.

Jerry

N9LCD

[NR9R]

There appears to be an interesting discussion evolving here but for the sake of organization it may be a good idea to start a new thread on the Safe Trading Tips Forum.

As for the topic at hand, the same transceiver has been relisted:

icom 746 and LDG AT-7000 tuner for sale
I have a Icom 746 and a LDG AT 7000 tuner for sale the radoi is in very good shape work a-1 it has all hf and 2 meter will sale for $700.00 + shipping. payment ups post office money order sale pending
Listing #597235 - Submitted on 05/19/07 by Callsign KE4MAE, Modified on 05/20/07

Although a great deal, hopefully people will check this forum to decide if it is worth the trouble.

[ke4mae]

sorry i got mix up i don,t ripe off no one just to many people call about the raido. aa9qc money ordder was return to him like we talk about i even to sent him the raido he said no. from ke4mae

[NR9R]

Message sent to me (innocent party edited):

i sent your money back the way it twas sent to me i think you just got mad because i told you the true and you did not like/ I sold the raido to James XXXXXXX he is very happen with the raido'you are just lilke women You want me sent your money back to you over night well i sent it back to you the same it was sent to me ke4mae

[n5wrx]

sale pening i have a yesuu 950 for sale book and box . this yaesu 950 is only 2month old the reson why i,m wanting sale it because i,m going get a Icom pro 3 756. I will take $1050.00 + shiping. you can e mail me at Ke4mae at hotmail.com
Listing #669340 - Submitted on 06/04/08 by Callsign KE4MAE

[af4nn]

Well i thought i would give this guy a try being we live close together an all so i called Mr Bratcher made the deal and were to meet tonight and pay him cash for the FT-950 , Well this morning i decided to call him( GOOD THING I DID ) or i would have waste a 2 hour trip and GAS! Anyway i called him and ask if everything was still a go for tonight for me to meet and pickup the rig and He said My Son did'nt call you i said no he did not , Well he decided i should keep the radio and not sell it BLAH BLAH BLAH anyway im sure am glad i made that call or i would have wasted a trip. anyway dont sell your rig first thinking your going to buy one from this HAM!!!

[NR9R]

With due respect to Mr. Bratcher, I do not think he has any fraudulent intentions. It was my impression that he may be mentally handicapped. If you happen to read this Clifton, I recommend that you ask the aid of a third party to carry out future business on QTH.COM in order to prevent such mishaps in the future.

Best,

Anthony