what the heck does this mean

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w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

what the heck does this mean

Post by w8jn » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:13 pm

often times i see an add that states "guaranteed not doa but sold as is" what the heck does that mean, other than the fact that the seller is an idiot? is it guaranteed or is it "as is".... caveat emptor. 73 paul w8jn

hamradman
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:36 am

Post by hamradman » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:13 am

Paul I saw that ad also. Your right, the seller is an idiot. I guess what he's saying is, I guarantee it works but if it does not I will not take it back. But then again he could be saying, I will say anything to sell it.and when you get it and it does not work too bad I said as-is.

w7hw
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:31 am

Re: what the heck does this mean

Post by w7hw » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:42 am

w8jn wrote:often times i see an add that states "guaranteed not doa but sold as is" what the heck does that mean, other than the fact that the seller is an idiot? is it guaranteed or is it "as is".... caveat emptor. 73 paul w8jn
:roll: Seems simple to me......seller is saying unit is operational, will work when you receive it, but will not offer "100 year operational" life..."duh" 73 Duane W7HW

N9LCD
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:32 pm

Post by N9LCD » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:00 am

"GUARANTEED NOT DOA": Does the seller really mean that, if the carrier smashes the rig and won't make good on the insurance claim, he'll reimburse the buyer for his loss? That's way I read it.

"BUT SOLD AS IS": Maybe he's saying that the rig works but there may be problems that he doesn't know anything about.

I've said "USED. OPERATIONAL BUT NOT TO SPECIFICATIONS" meaning that "The rig works but you're NOT getting NIB specs.

JERRY

N9LCD

N9LCD
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Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:32 pm

Post by N9LCD » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:00 am

"GUARANTEED NOT DOA": Does the seller really mean that, if the carrier smashes the rig and won't make good on the insurance claim, he'll reimburse the buyer for his loss? That's way I read it.

"BUT SOLD AS IS": Maybe he's saying that the rig works but there may be problems that he doesn't know anything about.

I've said "USED. OPERATIONAL BUT NOT TO SPECIFICATIONS" meaning that "The rig works but you're NOT getting NIB specifications".

JERRY

N9LCD

KS4ED
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:50 pm

Post by KS4ED » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:04 pm

That's a little quick calling someone an idiot... in your opinion.
It could mean the radio works but has small scratches, worn
spots, shows it's age or needs alignment. I'm sure just a little
communication would clarify the sellers statement. If you've
been in radio long enough you'd know that there are many
Hams who have bought used equipment (and new equipment)
and have hooked something up backwards, failed to read the
book, even hooked the coax jumpers up backwards and then
slander'd the seller on this web site to no end. Ask any dealer
at a Hamfest how many pieces of new equipment he has had
returned with a problem from operator error. I sold a radio where
I had to return the guy's money and when I got the radio back
it had a blown fuse. But... he whined and cried and threatened
to put a negative post on this web site. I fixed the radio and the
next guy I sold it to (who was not an idiot) had no problem with it.
I sure wish my shipping expenses had been as cheap as that
fuse.

lhk0pd
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Location: dodge city kansas
Contact:

Post by lhk0pd » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:20 pm

I agree calling the seller a idiot is being a little judgmental would'nt you think. The way i read such a posting is that he guarantees the Radio is as he claims and if the shipper or buyer should cause a problem with the radio he will not take it back as once he ships it to you it's yours.
Larry Huff K0pd

w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

can you read english

Post by w8jn » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:32 am

it says "as is" it doesnt say anything about carriers, hooking up backwards. as is simply means what you get is what you get. once it leaves my hands your are stuck with it. ITS CALLED A TAILLIGHT GUARANTEE as soon as you cant see my taillights, the guarantee is gonzoooooo. as is means as is. no guarantee. if a guy is willing to lure you in by stating that it works, then he is attempting to get you to pay for something that works, not something thats "as is' if it works, he should simply state that if it arrives and its dead, he will refund your money

KS4ED
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:50 pm

Post by KS4ED » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:50 am

If I sell you a car and I say "it runs fine" but I am selling it "as is"... that means
I'm not going to paint it, put tires on it, change the plugs and wax it for you.
If the next day you drive 10 miles with the emergency brake on and the
transmission starts slipping is that my fault? Maybe you wouldn't consider
asking for your money back but... there are a lot of people who would !!!
And alot of those types buy Ham Radio equipment. I know. Buying used
equipment has it's risks but selling it has it's risks too! A lot of good honest
sellers have been falsely accused right here... on this web site by Hams.
I've owned and sold a lot of equipment over the years. Once I sold a an old
Yaesu watt meter for $50 dollars... I did not know the cover had been
repainted. Looked good to me. Meter worked fine. Never said or wrote that
it was mint condition. In fact... I think I wrote "works fine - as is".
The buyer raised hell about it being a re-painted meter. I refused to take it back.
Thought for sure that $50 bucks was going to get me headlines here.
But, I could have wrote "guaranteed not to be DOA but selling as is". Same.

w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

money back

Post by w8jn » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:20 am

thats the difference between you and me. if someone is not happy with something i sell or trade them, i give them their money back. my reputation is worth more than $50 or $500. if i sell them a fine piece of perfectly working equipment and they trash it, they are out of luck. in your case it was not original and you should have indicated that. even if you didnt know, it is considered fraud in realestate to sell realty with flaws even if the flaws are not know to you. "i didnt know" does not release you from liability. thats why there are so many bad feedbacks. people dont ask enough questions and some sellers are just plain cheats and liars. cheats and liars are in violation of the law. then we have the third category, senile old morons who placed that "mint ft-101e" in saran wrap, stashed it in the garage then listed in as mint because "it was mint 30 years ago" and no one has touched the corroded pile of junk since. ask lots of questions and caveat emptor... 73 paul w8jn

KS4ED
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Post by KS4ED » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:16 am

I have returned money... read my first post. Concerning my second post you
said i didn't know, (which I didn't) but in your logic I was supposed to have the
paint analyzed and verified by a testing lab to cover my butt on a $50 dollar 40
year old watt metter??????? Fraud??? On a forty year old watt meter???
And... the buyer saw a picture of it !!! Also... I have stepped up to the plate and
bought a $35 dollar power cord which I may have forgot to pack in the box
of a radio I shipped... I'm pretty sure I did but the buyer claimed he didn't
get it. So, I will draw the line and I drew the line on that 40 year old watt meter.
I did not buy the meter new and the paint on the meter cover looked like the
Yaesu gray to me. Whatever... it was a $50 dollar meter!! Come on! Finally,
have you ever personally met the guy who called an Idiot?

w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

thats the point

Post by w8jn » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:22 pm

thats the exact point. you are going to get into a pissin' contest with someone who is not satisfied with a $50 item you shipped? draw a line in the sand over $50? wow.... good thing you are not in retail business. thats the stuff that gives management nightmares... a sales rep who pisses off a customer over nickles and dimes and sends them to the competition. again, the fact the you didnt know the item was repainted does not relieve you of the responsibility you had to your buyer. the value of boatanchor stuff is in its originality. doesnt matter if its a $1 or $5000 piece. once its modified from its original, its value is zero to a collector. look at ads for collector cars. they are advertised as "all matching serial numbers" or "toys" replaced parts or incorrect repaint destroys the collector value. you are absolutely within your rights to tell your buyer to go "piss up a rope". you will eventually establish a reputation as a seller to avoid.

KS4ED
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:50 pm

Post by KS4ED » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:45 pm

You're a very presumptive and assuming person. How do you know I am not
in sales. How do you know I am not in the retail business? You don't know
anything about me... I do hold a few FCC licenses few have achieved and I
deal with people everyday from Los Angeles, Clearwater, Tampa, Bowling
Green and Nashville Tennessee. And... I can recognized a person who's
life is dedicated to looking for fault everywhere and thinking their thinking
of someone else whom they may know nothing about is never flawed.
Finally, try buying a Yaesu YS2000 watt meter for $50 dollars. If you do I'll
bet you'd find something to complain about it.

w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

was it worth it

Post by w8jn » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:07 pm

getting back to my original comment. was the aggravation worth $50? no one in sales can have the attitude you have and be successful with return business. salesmen with a chip on their shoulder (as you obviously have) end up like Willie Loman.

kb0nly
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:38 pm

Post by kb0nly » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:26 pm

I think that guy got a steal at $50, so what if the paint wasn't original. For about two hours of my time and $30 i could strip, sand, prime, paint, and put it back together.. Drying time not included of course..

Then i would have $70 into a meter that still sells for $100+ on eBay. I think the guy got a steal of a deal, if he was expecting mint for $50 then he needs his head examined. Obviously he doesn't know about the prices of vintage gear. In previous years i used to be able to buy stuff like that for a bill here or there, now even the rough ones on eBay go for more than i have to spend because of all the guys into restoring them.

My personal favorite is Heathkit gear. I bought a ROUGH HM-102 off eBay about two months ago, the face was perfect, the meter was cracked, and the top half of the cabinet was dirty and rusty. I had a friend media blast the cover, cleaned the rest, checked it for operation and replaced one resistor that was out of value, put a new cover on the meter from a NOS SB meter i had. A little primer and paint. I had maybe $40 invested, sold it for $80 on eBay and the auction clearly stated that it was restored and the top was repainted with matched paint. Side by side with my original mint HM-102 you couldn't tell the difference at all.

Buyer got it, praised me for the looks of the meter, and the deal was done.

But it sounds as if you would chew me out on that just as you did the guy who sold a repainted YS for $50?

w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

you did the right stuff

Post by w8jn » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:57 pm

chew you out? no way. you listed it accurately. you said restored. a seller has an obligation to list accurately. a buyer has every right to expect an item to be listed correctly. there is no such thing as a seller telling the buyer "it may not be listed right, but you sure got a good deal"

Radio_God
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:12 pm

I agree with w8jn, hamradman

Post by Radio_God » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:33 pm

Anyone who uses "sold as is" has got to be an idiot! If I buy anything here I expect it to last a lifetime, even if I hook the power leads up wrong or if its hit by lightning. If anything goes wrong with it and the seller doesn't give me a full refund I will come to feedback forum and cry and whine until he does.

Yep, that hamradman & w8jn is sure some smart dudes! :P

N9LCD
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:32 pm

Re: money back

Post by N9LCD » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:05 pm

w8jn wrote: it is considered fraud in realestate to sell realty with flaws even if the flaws are not know to you. "
WRONGO, PAUL!

We bought real estate in Illinois and, despite an inspection, subsequently found major defects. One particular defect was more than a new, top-of-the-line Yaesu or ICOM hf rig.

We sat down our attorney to discuss legal action against the sellers. The verdict?

WE'D HAVE TO PROVE THAT THE SELLERS WERE AWARE OF THE DEFECTS AND DID NOT DISCLOSE THEM, NOT SIMPLY THAT THEY DIDN'T DISCLOSE THE DEFECTS. AND GOOD LUCK PROVING THAT THEY WERE AWARE OF THE DEFECTS!!!

N9LCD



:cry:

w7hw
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:31 am

Re: I agree with w8jn, hamradman

Post by w7hw » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:48 am

Radio_God wrote:Anyone who uses "sold as is" has got to be an idiot! If I buy anything here I expect it to last a lifetime, even if I hook the power leads up wrong or if its hit by lightning. If anything goes wrong with it and the seller doesn't give me a full refund I will come to feedback forum and cry and whine until he does.

Yep, that hamradman & w8jn is sure some smart dudes! :P
Nice to see some comments from a "IDIOT" who hides behind "lack of a call sign"......probably can't pass the "easy" test format in present time, this person should , as previous posts, "get a life"................Identify, or get outta the way......W7HW

W1QJ
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Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Post by W1QJ » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:58 am

I am wondering one thing. Everyone has a problem with the phase "sold as is", and no one can seem to provide an explaination to just what that means or what it impies. What if the seller says this, "sold with no guarantee or warrenty implied" . Would that make better sense? WHat about this, what If I buy a radio from W8JN and I get it and I put it on the air, it works just Dandy for me. I use it every day to talk to a group of hams on SSB on 75 meters. A month later I want to buy a different radio and I sell the radio to N8ERN. He gets the radio and indicates to me that menu #127 does not function properly. Lets say #127 is " CW sidetone frequrency adjust". Says the radio is flawed and is upset. I say, I am a no code ham and never used or cared about menu #127. DO I have any recourse with W8JN? It's possible the radio was flawed from the factory and no one ever picked it up, but N8ERN did. I have been in ham radio for over 45 years and it seemed if you bought a used radio, once you hauled it away from a flea market table it was yours. There has to be some level of closure on a "used item". If you want a blanket guarantee I think you better buy a new radio instead. Now on the other hand, If I buy an SB-221 amplifer and I get a SB-220 that was a CB amplifier instead, I think I do have some recourse since that is a bladent misrepresenation of the item. Lou

w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

missing the point

Post by w8jn » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:05 am

some of you guys are missing the point. i have purchased many "as is" items and if they arrive dead, its my problem. i dont have any issues with seller selling "as is".
i have also purchased many items "guaranteed not dead" and i expect them to arrive alive or the seller refunds my $$$$. as i stated originally, i have a big problem with someone who entices a person to buy by saying "guaranteed to not be doa" and then after he scams you to buy with his "guarantee" throws in "however it is.. as is" meaning???? until i have your cash in hand i will tell you reassuring things, guarantee it is not doa, then once i have your money, you are SOL........ sell it guaranteed, or as is, not both. someone who lists it as both is simply a scam artist crook.
lou, in answer to your question, the seller has an obligation to check out whatever he sells. if i buy from you and do not test all features and then sell a defective rig to the next guy, its my problem, not yours. A car dealer sells you a car represented as "everything works" you find out the ac does not work. will you accept "uhhh we didnt test it, the previous owner needs to fix it for you"? nawww i dont think so.
73 paul w8jn... not hiding behind mommys skirt with an alias!!!!

Radio_God
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: I agree with w8jn, hamradman

Post by Radio_God » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:30 am

w7hw wrote:
Radio_God wrote:Anyone who uses "sold as is" has got to be an idiot! If I buy anything here I expect it to last a lifetime, even if I hook the power leads up wrong or if its hit by lightning. If anything goes wrong with it and the seller doesn't give me a full refund I will come to feedback forum and cry and whine until he does.

Yep, that hamradman & w8jn is sure some smart dudes! :P
Nice to see some comments from a "IDIOT" who hides behind "lack of a call sign"......probably can't pass the "easy" test format in present time, this person should , as previous posts, "get a life"................Identify, or get outta the way......W7HW

Talking about an idiot, if you would learn how to read you could tell that I was using sarcasm to make my point. Now, Duane, go clean that mud off your face young man! Oh, and when someone googles your call they will see just how smart you really are. LOL

kg8lb
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:37 pm

Post by kg8lb » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:52 pm

One thing for sure, the DIVERSITY of interpretation here prove that the statement is mostly ambiguous. Probably intentionally ambiguous, AKA "weasel wording". Too many sellers today throw in the "As-Is" clause as a catch all escape route. They somehow think they can then embelish the description, conceal or neglect to advise the potential buyer of known issues and they are totally covered by the "As-Is" magic carpet.

I tend to avoid people who add that clause, often accompanied by the "As with ALL vintage electronic equipment.....item sold AS-IS"
Of course that is not a true statement. Many sellers will stand behind whatever they sell.

Another pet peeve is the sloppy packing job that results in a nice old piece of gear becoming badly damaged. The seller then insists the BUYER file a claim with the shipping carrier , pushing off their own responsibility onto totally blameless parties, IE the buyer and the carrier.

A basic tenant of law involving ambiguity in agreements is that the decision usually goes AGAINST the party that creates the ambiguity. Unfortunately it is not always the case. Better to do a little homework when you are able and se what previous dealing have been reported. Just a few negaives should get your attention. Of course you can look into the background and feedback of the person originating the negatives as well.

Bottom line: Calculated risks. But you can improve the odds with a little homework.
Last edited by kg8lb on Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

N9LCD
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:32 pm

AMBIGUOUS?

Post by N9LCD » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:47 am

Is the expression "AS IS" ambiguous?

It has a long-established legal meaning "WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED". In an "AS IS" transaction, it is the buyer's responsibility to verify or establish the condition of the item for sale.

It's like buying a use car "as is". If you don't have the car checked-out by a mechanic and the engine falls out right in front of the used car lot, you're S.O.L!

I think the primary problem with "AS IS" can be simply called "BUYER'S REMORSE". A buyer expecting "new" or "like new" for a fraction of the MSRP ends up with something less than his "bargain or "steal".

IT'S HARD TO CHEAT AN HONEST MAN.

NOBODY CAN CHEAT YOU UNLESS YOU LET THEM!

N9LCD

w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

here is a good one from mike KB9YIV !

Post by w8jn » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:31 am

ok guys.... below is an excellent ad taken directly from qth.com. the seller describes the equipment in detail and he indicates it is "as is" ... non of this "as is however not doa" nonsense. he further states "email me with any questions". this is an outstanding ad and an honest seller. he leaves nothing to ambiguity and tells you straight up, ask him any questions and he will answer before you you buy. a big pat on the back to mike KB9YIV !!!!

RADIOVHF - FS Kenwood TH-79(D) and a TH-G71 + Mic
TH-G71 is in used condition but works well, lettering is rubbing off. Has a Homebrew PTT rubber cover as the original came off. The rubber gasket is no longer on this radio. I am the second owner of both radios. Caution - The TX extend mod was done on them and I do not want that on my radios. Should be easy to undo for someone who can solder better than me. TH-79(D) is in good shape and works well but is missing rubber gasket for DC in. Battery jiggles a little. Lost OEM antenna comes with VHF duckie. Includes a Kenwood Public Saftey mic, Both have drop in standard chargers as well as a wall charger. A PG-4P Programming cable for the Th-71. Both battery clips of the 71 broke and I glued back on. Both have aftermarket batteries that will have to be replaced soon as they are older. Have not tested charge ability. These radios work but have the TX mod issue. I will sell everything here for $150 and I will cover shipping. Sold AS-IS. Please email any Questions. Thanks and 73
Mike

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