What would be everyones thoughts?

[N8VZ]

USPS works well to the 49th and 50th states and even to Canada.

If the buyer is willing to pay the price private carriers are okay as well.

Sellers unwilling to risk being smeared in public over a good faith transaction are increasingly avoiding the complications of shipping to foreign destinations. One clear indication of the potential for problems with a buyer is the request for illegally falsified customs documents.

It is premature to join sides in the issue at hand. The seller has had a few problems in the past(minor and apparently resolved) and the buyer has had no problems in the past while presently looking to circumvent the law(albeit what many seem to consider a minor infraction).

Pressuring the seller via this venue without letting the dust settle over the shipping schedule is sufficient reason to avoid this buyer his American agent and other similarly acting parties.

I agree with all of your points here. This whole thread seems kind of unseemly. One thing that I always find very strange is when a seller names a price and then says "plus shipping costs, to CONUS only." If the buyer is going to pay the shipping, why does the seller want to preclude a possible sale to a U.S. ham in Hawai'i or Alaska. Very strange, indeed, IMHO.

Let me add that my Russian ham friend has never asked me to make a fraudulent claim on a custom form. He's only stressed that I should correctly specify that the equipment is used, because that greatly reduces the duty that he has to pay on his end.

[w7why]

Let me add that my Russian ham friend has never asked me to make a fraudulent claim on a custom form. He's only stressed that I should correctly specify that the equipment is used, because that greatly reduces the duty that he has to pay on his end.

When I was doing a lot of eBay, I found out that when shipping to foreign countries (including countries in North America), some buyers wanted us to lie about what was in the package.

If someone would lie about the value, and it's found out, the seller is responsible and takes the hit, not the buyer. So if a seller admits they lied on the forms, it's their problem.

[w8jn]

I agree,
Many times I have had foreign buyers ask me to lie about the value and indicate that it is "scrap parts". I have told the buyer that I am ok with their request however they assume all liability if it is lost or destroyed. They will receive the $2 dollar insurance reimbursement for the $1500 they spent because they wanted to save a few $$$$ on shipping and taxes.

[NA6TE]

It never fails after everyone adds their comments about their own experiences the thread gets side tracked in another direction.

Fact:
No one has asked for a refund YET only proof of sending.
Fact:
Steve said he entered the amount of $750 on the customs form so there was no cheating.
Fact:
The sender would not pay any VAT or any other type of tax, therefore doesn’t it sound sort of stupid to think Adrian would let the radio sit in customs for 10% or 20% (actually no cost for used ham gear) of the $750? Let’s see, spend maybe $150 to get the radio or lose $820, what would all of you do? I know what I would do, it doesn’t take an Einstein to go pick up the radio if it was there.

The only problem is that it has become clearer and clearer that Steve did not send the radio. When my phone bill comes in for this month, I will post for Steve’s benefit, the call I made to the WI PO and the return call when they called me to let me know that there were NO packages sent to Romania anytime during the month of May. Since I did not ask for a name of who may have sent a package only if a package may have been sent.

[ns5u]

Deleted

[w8jn]

What he really meant was "Give me your thoughts if you agree with me." Now, Steve may or may not have sent the rig. No one is defending him. Everyone has simply said it's too early to pass judgement. Now we have entered the name calling stage because we will not blindly follow the lemming leader off the cliff!
Happy Hoss Trading Paul w8jn

[NA6TE]

Change of heading so as not to mislead anyone "Problem with the transaction between YO9BVF and KA9MOT"

You started this thread asking for everyone's thoughts or did you mean will everyone please join an effort to intimidate Steve?
Yes I did start the thread asking for thoughts on a fellow ham doing this to another ham. What are everyones thoughts on someone who would do what was originally mentioned and Steve's call was never mentioned until later on when it was clear that something was awry.

Steve has said when the radio is returned he will send a refund to which you replied how long must Adrian wait?
And how long is that in your mind? If the radio was not sent then that appears to be a very long time.

Steve entered the correct amount ignoring Adrian's request to falsify the document which request you later attempt to justify.

I don't deny that Steve was asked for a "GIFT" entry. It makes paper work on that end less hassle free. The items I send I list as Ham Radio Gear or Parts and have not had a problem and is not misleading.

First you ask for thoughts from the readership and then insult, confront, and belittle those who reply. The point is simply who needs this? If Adrian has been hoodwinked you could just as easily have begun legal action at the end of July rather than incite general discontent in order to intimidate Steve.

I am sorry I missed the part where I insulted, confronted and belittled anyone. I merely asked that everyone read the posts before adding something that does not pertain to the subject at hand or leads it off in another direction.
The matter has already been turned over to the US Postal Inspector so there is no intimidation only fact. If I was going to intimidate Steve I would have started the thread with some premature statement that KA9MOT was a dishonest ham. Instead he was given every oppurtunuty to rectify the problem without actually listing his call (because he reads the forum and may have figured it out) and has failed to do so.

A better use of the forum would be to inform us when there has been an abuse not merely the accusation.

Why is this response not added to every post on the forum? The negative ones all start with "so and so is a crook" and go on to tell the story. This was not done in this thread.

What he really meant was "Give me your thoughts if you agree with me." Now, Steve may or may not have sent the rig. No one is defending him. Everyone has simply said it's too early to pass judgement. Now we have entered the name calling stage because we will not blindly follow the lemming leader off the cliff!

Come on Paul, there is no name calling (like you used to do) but you have mellowed out. I'm not looking for ANY agreement in any of the posts, only a remedy on how others would go about this.

I am willing to have both of you NS5U and you Paul, W8JN write a post on how you would have gone about this knowing you had the information in your hands that shows to be in a negative light for KA9MOT. You would be doing this on behalf of a fellow ham that his english skills are far from excellant and sometimes requires some studying to figure out what he needs. Please include your thoughts on how long Adrian should wait. (don't say until the radio is returned) that is the main problem, there is absolutely NO evidence that the radio was shipped.

Thanks for both of your input. Nate......NA6TE



[/quote][/u]

[ns5u]

Deleted

[NA6TE]

NS5U, I offered with good intentions on how you would have handled and this is the response?

I cannot compete with your holier than thou attitude. Thank you for your input. You just like to badger.

[ns5u]

I should never have responded

[w8jn]

Judge Roy (Nate) Bean,
Mellowed out? Me? No way! I just don't call out the hangman until the facts are in.
On the other hand, you are judge jury and executioner prior to having enough information for your hanging party. Look over your shoulder. Josie Wales has you in his sights!....NOW, in the end you may be 100% correct, however your death penalty is about 10 weeks premature. As I said earlier, one overseas rig I shipped to Poland via USPS took in excess of 6 weeks.
Hang em High Roy!!!
Happy Hoss Trading Paul w8jn

[K9XR]

Yep, What Nate really means is: C'mon guys, if you agree with me, help me gang up on Steve. If not please don't waste my time with describing your experiences, because I'm not reall interested in that anyway.

EXCUSE ME!!! I thought that maybe because your last sentence had BOLD PRINT and was UNDERLINED it contained a valid point, but I guess I was mistaken. I was not excusing the lack of a tracking number, I was just stating some of my experiences with overseas shipping and customs. I guess the title of your post (What are everyone's thoughts?) doen't mean much either. Maybe YOU should sit back and quit making ASSumptions.

Good Lord XR if you can't make sense sit back and be an observer.

Latest email said lost shipping info. Assuming the radio makes it to Romania but is damaged, how can anything be done with a claim with NO info? Assume the radio never makes it. How can the radio be traced without any info?

From: Steve Hays <kc0rey>
Subject: Yaesu FT-857
To: "adrian balc" <yo9bvf>
Date: Tuesday, May 31, 2011, 11:30 PM
Adrian,
I just saw a post on QTH that I have not been answering your emails. I have not received any emails from you. Nothing. I figured you'd received the rig.
What I don't have is any tracking number for you. I've lost it and may have left it at the motel in Rice Lake, WI.
Your radio is coming Adrian.....I have a very good reputation as a trader.

73,
I did not receive radio and not true, I wrote emails to which he responded.
Thanks so much for help!
Adrian

I do hope this situation turns out OK for both parties. I believe Steve probably meant well but got careless and that reflects on all of us.
All sales, trades and shipping should always have good communication and all shipping paperwork shared between both parties.

NA6TE.......Nate

[w8jn]

Judge Roy,
I have a suggestion for a new topic title for this thread. You could call it "If I want your opinion I will give it to you" or how about " I am the worlds foremost authority on my own opinion, others need not apply"
Best 73 Paul w8jn

ps, why in the heck would someone title a topic
What would be everyones thoughts?
And then thrash anyone who disagrees??? GEEEEZZZZZZZZ LOUEZZZZEEEEE

[W3WN]

NS5U, I offered with good intentions on how you would have handled and this is the response?

I cannot compete with your holier than thou attitude. Thank you for your input. You just like to badger.

Pot.
Kettle.
Black.

[NA6TE]

Since it is field day week end and will be busy as most hams will be, I will post this now as if it were Sunday.

Well folks it has been 6 weeks since KA9MOT supposedly sent the radio to Adrian and still no radio. BTW Steve you said the lady at the USPS in Rice Lake, WI. was going to try and help you look for the information possibly by postal code on 6/4. By any chance did she ever get back with you and tell you Yea or Nay? My goodness that was 3 weeks ago. They were very helpful when I called and asked if there were any shipments to Romania in the month of May, from anyone. It took her about 45 minutes before she called me back, and yes, as soon as I get my phone bill for this month I will be more than happy to post the part where I called and the part for the return call. The call would have been a toll call for you so to show you have actually called you could post the toll from your bill on 6/4 when you get it. That does sound only fair since you have shown no good faith on helping with the radio retrieval.
You have Adrian’s phone number, why haven’t you called and let him know what you’re doing to rectify this problem?

I realize you have all your “Good Buddy’s” on the other forum ranting and raving how you’re getting raked over the coals, but they don’t seem to pay any attention to facts either. However you do sound convincing with your sob story.

If you had the package insured for the amount specified Steve are you going to claim that money also and if you get the radio back why would you say this? “I'm only going to send him back half the money for my aggravation minus shipping.” Just who should be aggravated you or Adrain? You know, the guy who sent you the money, continually requested shipping info and has now been totally shut off from any communication from you with no radio and no money. Just who is it that made out on this deal Steve ?

Call Adrian and request the phone number for their customs office and explain that you lost the tracking info and that you want to check if any shipment was received from WI in the month of May or June. Then call Rice Lake and request the same info about anything being sent to Romania in the month of May. If you can show that you did this and received ANY info from either place that will show that you are telling the truth then these weekly posts will stop.

I think what you have done to a fellow ham is despicable? It is my opinion that you saw a chance to revert back to your old ways and you wouldn’t get caught because the other ham was 7000 miles away. I have received numerous private emails that see the same MO as before, however do not want to post because of the unnecessary brow beating from the chosen few on this forum.

It’s time for you to do the right thing Steve.

Nate

[W3WN]

Nate:

First off, it has been evident from the very start of this thread that you have determined that Steve is guilty of theft. You have been browbeating him and worse from the very first post. And that is self-evident, IMHO, to anyone who reads this thread as a disinterested third party.

Second: It is because of THAT attitude that you have demonstrated in your posts that I started the "Raked Over The Coals" thread over on the Island of Misfit Hams. There's no need to be "cute" over it. You want to deal in facts? Then why be disengenous over that?

Third: I have no direct knowledge of the transaction. I do not know Steve... he is a friendly acquaintance, but I am certainly not his "Good Buddy." I dislike intensely the implication that his friends are blindly supporting him and the related implication that we don't know that he's fooling us.

For all I know, as it turns out, you may be entirely right. I certainly hope not, as Steve is a (from what I know) a good guy. But I don't know.

And...

Fourth... neither do you. And THAT is the point of the other thread.

You are basing these accusations, and they are serious ones, on what you've been told by another set of amateurs in another country. They may well be right, but you don't KNOW. You say you called the Post Office? I find that quite interesting... my wife's ex is a postal carrier, and from what he tells me, you should not have been told what you said you were. So did someone just say anything to get you off the phone? Did you talk to the right branch? Do you actually KNOW?

This is not a court of law. But this should not be a venue for potential slander, either.

The FACTS are that Steve said he shipped an item to another country, and it hasn't turned up yet.

The FACTS are that Adrian has asked you on his behalf to intercede with Steve.

And the FACT is that you are proceeding to rake Steve over the coals (my phrasing) in a public forum -- here -- to try and embarress him into refunding the amount in question. And have been doing so for weeks.

I can not defend whether or not Steve did as he says. I certainly hope he did, but I don't know. And neither do you, but you choose to believe otherwise.

Fine. You've made your point.

While I can't defend what Steve did or didn't do, I do take issue with how YOU have gone about it. THAT is the point of the IOMH threads.

And I will repeat here what I said there... based on your actions and comments in this thread, frankly, I would not ever want to deal with you. If I sold you a widgit and you weren't happy about something, even if it was something beyond my control (like a delivery issue with a carrier), would I be seeing my reputation trashed until I submitted to your demands? No thanks.

[NA6TE]

First off, it has been evident from the very start of this thread that you have determined that Steve is guilty of theft. You have been browbeating him and worse from the very first post. And that is self-evident, IMHO, to anyone who reads this thread as a disinterested third party. WRONG, only asked for proof of tracking, receipt of payment, anything

Second: It is because of THAT attitude that you have demonstrated in your posts that I started the "Raked Over The Coals" thread over on the Island of Misfit Hams. There's no need to be "cute" over it. You want to deal in facts? Then why be disengenous over that? Like your post said on the forum "I was demanding a refund" Total BS and still haven't demanded a refund.

Third: I have no direct knowledge of the transaction. I do not know Steve... he is a friendly acquaintance, but I am certainly not his "Good Buddy." I dislike intensely the implication that his friends are blindly supporting him and the related implication that we don't know that he's fooling us. Go back and see how all of the group followed your lead with none of the REAL facts. BTW, your name or call was never mentioned.

For all I know, as it turns out, you may be entirely right. I certainly hope not, as Steve is a (from what I know) a good guy. But I don't know.

And...

Fourth... neither do you. And THAT is the point of the other thread. You are absolutely correct I don't know, so how does one find out other than request information?

You are basing these accusations, and they are serious ones, on what you've been told by another set of amateurs in another country. They may well be right, but you don't KNOW. You say you called the Post Office? I find that quite interesting... my wife's ex is a postal carrier, and from what he tells me, you should not have been told what you said you were. So did someone just say anything to get you off the phone? Did you talk to the right branch? Do you actually KNOW? I have dealt with the person in questions for 3 years with no problem like this. There is 2 branches in Rice Lake and 1 is a drop site that does not do customs (per Cory @ Rice Lake PO) and the other is where Cory works. She returned the call after approx. 45 minutes and responded with no packages had left that PO to anywhere in Europe.

This is not a court of law. But this should not be a venue for potential slander, either. Look at all the negative posts on this forum and tell if you see anything other than so & so is not to be trusted or so & so is a crook or a scammer, etc. and that was not done here. But getting close.
The FACTS are that Steve said he shipped an item to another country, and it hasn't turned up yet.

The FACTS are that Adrian has asked you on his behalf to intercede with Steve.

And the FACT is that you are proceeding to rake Steve over the coals (my phrasing) in a public forum -- here -- to try and embarress him into refunding the amount in question. And have been doing so for weeks. I'm just trying to get STEVE to do SOMETHING, he hasen't done ANYTHING to resolve it. I would be willing to bet he never spoke with the PO in WI, but it can be proven but he does not do anything to help his case.

I can not defend whether or not Steve did as he says. I certainly hope he did, but I don't know. And neither do you, but you choose to believe otherwise.

Fine. You've made your point.

While I can't defend what Steve did or didn't do, I do take issue with how YOU have gone about it. THAT is the point of the IOMH threads.

And I will repeat here what I said there... based on your actions and comments in this thread, frankly, I would not ever want to deal with you. If I sold you a widgit and you weren't happy about something, even if it was something beyond my control (like a delivery issue with a carrier), would I be seeing my reputation trashed until I submitted to your demands? No thanks. Sorry, you won't find anthing that even ressembles what you are insinuating on my record but only to the contrary Ron.[/quote]

[W3WN]

First off, it has been evident from the very start of this thread that you have determined that Steve is guilty of theft. You have been browbeating him and worse from the very first post. And that is self-evident, IMHO, to anyone who reads this thread as a disinterested third party. WRONG, only asked for proof of tracking, receipt of payment, anything

Second: It is because of THAT attitude that you have demonstrated in your posts that I started the "Raked Over The Coals" thread over on the Island of Misfit Hams. There's no need to be "cute" over it. You want to deal in facts? Then why be disengenous over that? Like your post said on the forum "I was demanding a refund" Total BS and still haven't requested a refund.
<snip>

http://chat.qth.com/viewtopic.php?t=974 ... c&start=23

Note the last line (emphasis added):

Steve, you need to do the right thing and send Adrian his money. I think we all know where this is going.

That's not asking for a refund?

Clearly, as he has stated earlier, Steve no longer wishes to respond publicly to your taunts. Can't say I blame him at this point.

[lhk0pd]

NA6TE You say your making no accusations but only giving facts. Well to most of us reading your facts it darn sure comes across as accusing Steve. The fact is your words reveal your feelings about Steve. In fact you did tell Steve to send back Adrians Money as W3WN as proven. One could turn this whole thing back on you being as proof at this point is non existent and say how do we know you and Adrian are not in cahoots together to beat Steve out of his Radio and funds paid. I do not believe as such but the point is i'm only showing how quickly as the saying goes the worm can turn.

[NA6TE]

There was never a request for a refund from the start only after it was clear that Steve's storys did not jive, PO info was negative and was also clear that Steve was not going to do anything to help the situation. "Do the right thing and send Adrian his money" is hardly a demand but a suggestion to DO SOMETHING.

Your post made it sound like the money was demanded of Steve from the very 1st post.

He doesn't have to post it here Ron, have him send any info from the PO or ANYTHING he has to help his case to you privately and you can post the results. However it will be necessary to prove anything he tells you so don't get yourself caught in the charade.

[kg8lb]

A trustworthy seller/shipper realizes his responsibility to maintain and provide adequate shipping, tracking and insurance paperwork. Failing that basic responsibility, how convenient for a seller to discontinue or minimize cooperation based on his dislike for the buyer's response. Declaring the buyer settle for the seller's terms and timetable at that point borders on absurd. A history of similar behaviour further diminishes credibility .

The buyer has done his part. He has paid and provided shipping address. Conjecture from the seller regarding customs, duties, etc would be less of an issue if the proper ducumentation had been maintained.

Not an "elitist" just being fair.

[n4dxx]

A trustworthy seller/shipper realizes his responsibility to maintain and provide adequate shipping, tracking and insurance paperwork. Failing that basic responsibility, how convenient for a seller to discontinue or minimize cooperation based on his dislike for the buyer's response. Declaring the buyer settle for the seller's terms and timetable at that point borders on absurd. A history of similar behaviour further diminishes credibility .

The buyer has done his part. He has paid and provided shipping address. Conjecture from the seller regarding customs, duties, etc would be less of an issue if the proper ducumentation had been maintained.

Not an "elitist" just being fair.

100% Correct,The shipper can get the shipping info even if he (Drops it out an airplane)The postal service must keep a record of any customs forms,I have shipped overseas and you get a copy and they keep a copy.Plain and to the point if the seller can't provide it didn't happen.Matter of fact i shipped a package to canada some years ago and had tracking and lost it and as long as you have the date and approx time it was shipped they can find a copy no big deal.

[lhk0pd]

Look all i do not think me or Paul or any of the others are saying Steve may not be in the wrong; but only felt he was being called out too quickly at this point. Steve and i have disagreed before, and i personally did not feel afterwards as to how he handled the disagreement that he was totally a upfront person. But i will admit that 6 weeks is getting to be a long time now and do know from other comments by Adrian and others that Adrian is i feel a straight shooter. I did copy Steves words from another thread where as a Ham was being Chastised for a improperly handled deal. So you all can take from it what you will so here it is,an KG8LB i believe you were in on this one too about Eric.....

(Why would anyone not think you a crook when it takes you 7 months to promise to resolve an issue? Mistakes happen (I've made my share) but the true measure is how willing and how quick you are to resolve any issues.
We'll see if your word is any good on Friday. )

At this point you've earned a big FAIL!
_________________
Steve - KA9MOT

[NA6TE]

SOON


6/10/2011 7:32 AM To 309-833-5593 UNITED STATES G Connected
6/10/2011 7:30 AM From 715-234-3553 Rogstad Dan
6/10/2011 7:19 AM To 715-234-3553 Rogstad Dan Connected

[NA6TE]

Update........................

Spoke with Lt. Carle of the Macomb PD, sent him the signed letter from Adrian explaining entire situation. Adrain offered all communications etc. The Lt. was going to visit Steve and all will be made available good, bad or indifferent.