Ebay sellers peddling HAM radios as LMR

Just what it says -- this is the place for any discussions not related to Buying, Selling and Trading ham gear. The discussion must be related to Ham Radio.
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N4XTS
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Ebay sellers peddling HAM radios as LMR

Post by N4XTS » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:39 am

I've noticed an increase of unscrupulous sellers like THIS:

http://cgi.ebay.com/XTRA-Tx-Freqs-Yaesu ... dZViewItem

Selling HAM rigs for use on commercial, public safety and business frequencies. Where is Riley's replacement? Notice how this loser makes no mention of the fact that using this radio outside the ham bands to transmit is ILLEGAL regardless of the fact that you may have a license as this radio is not type certified for such use.

It really irritates me as many unsuspecting buyers such as volunteer fireman buy these because they are so cheap (compared to a true LMR radio which would run close to 350-400 from the same maker) and advertised the way they are.
Ebay doesn't care, I've contacted them this "powerseller" is allowed to peddle these modified rigs. I guess he's never thought what might happen if a fireman dies in a fire because of the failure of some non-certified radio not designed for commercial use and his family finds out and sues the pants off of him or even facing criminal prosecution under state laws.

What is sad is how the FCC is so "offline" these days. I remember when Riley was here, he went after several Ebay turds like this and notified them they were selling non-type certified radios and to cease and desist. He also contacted the buyers, several of which were public safety users, and advised them that use of such equipment not only put their safety at risk, but also their departments' license to operate their radio systems.

Any department or officer would be a fool to KNOWINGLY use such equipment in their LOD, however clowns like Mr. Sisyphus1111 don't provide them with the information that they are selling HAM RADIOS that ARE NOT FOR USE on commercial frequencies.
Amateur radio gets right through.

WB4KMA
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:49 am
Location: Orlando, Fl

radio sales

Post by WB4KMA » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:52 pm

There are frequencies that I use as a licensed MARS operator that
YOU MAY NOT USE.

I had to be HAM licensed first, then I had to go through a training course
I find nothing wrong with the use of my yaesu 897-d for MARS modification.

It is up to me as a professional to know the frequencies I can transmit on and what to leave alone.

Have you taken the time to look at what what frequencies are allowed on MARS bands?

Could you tell me as an expert technician how to allow these frequencies w/o allowing certain others?

No slam meant at all sir. Just a thoght on a different view point at something we may be missing out on. .

N4XTS
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Post by N4XTS » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:55 am

that's because the MARS and CAP fall under NTIA regulation, not FCC so type certification does not apply.

This guy isn't selling to MARS and CAP, he is selling radios for use on the MURS, LMR and other bootleg uses. He knows it, I've contacted him, he knows what he is selling. He specializes in selling to glider pilots and interestingly enough he told me in an email through Ebay that he uses 146.xxMHz, 151.625 and other MURS/BRS channels. I replied and asked for his ham call sign as anything between 144-148MHz requires a valid FCC issued amateur radio license of technician to transmit there and the VX-150 is not certified as a MURS or business band radio. He responded with some spam about "Obama Obama". So there, another crap seller on Ebay what a shocker.
Amateur radio gets right through.

WB4KMA
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:49 am
Location: Orlando, Fl

who pays

Post by WB4KMA » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:11 am

Now here is another thought. All I am doing right now is trying to think differently.

The guys selling illegal radio equipment have not seen a recent major enforcement action from the FCC. You can ask the guy all you want for an ID, does he owe you anything? Are you a law enforcement agent?
Who are you going to call? Have you had much success with a phone call in getting something done?

Do you contribute to a politicians election? It does not seem to matter much about a voter over who helps pay for a campaign. Iwould love to be able to see my senator or congressman over a hamburger vs the 1,000.00 a plate dinners they have for fund raisers.


So many people want bigger jails, more enforcement of certain laws,a chance to be heard, yet few people want to hear of who pays for certain social services.

The ham frequencies are a joy to a lot of us. I have met some fantastic people. I have also met a few whiners who have nothing good to say about anything.
Some people threw a fit over the code / cw option now insteaad of it being mandated.

It may be that our problem is just a small minute tooth of a giant gear that is turning in federal government.

My view point anymore is:
The things I can do something about, I try hard to.
The things I can do nothing about, I move on to what I can do.

Sooner or later things catch up with a person. I have been involved in putting court cases together for 25 years now. Judges are swamped with one heck of a case load of some serious crimes.

Prosecutors are tired of no raises and long hours.

Clerks are frustrated with the records they must keep and who pays for certain services from their office.

Even victims hate to see their name dragged through a public record in the courts and wiating to see if they will be reimbursed over a crime.

Federal corrections officers are frustrated over the overcrowding laws of inmates serving 85 percent of a sentance. A lot of corrections staff are frustrated with baby sitting a prisoner that may have hepatitus, AIDS, STD's and they are not paid a very high amount of hazard pay.

Often we see county correctional officers geting paid better over a antique state run and older jail system.

You have a good point and it deserves merrit sir.I am not defending anyone.

I am hoping I can point out the cost of enforcement and how effective it may or may not be over other crimse they are stuck working on their case load.

Ask yourself something else.............aside from HAMS........does John Q PUblic care about an illegal radio and what happens to the vendor over things such as:

Counterfeit money?
Drug Wars?
Stolen vehicles and not being able to get insurance for certain vehicles?
Drug and health care?
Copy right infringement? Some people still sell copies of Win XP and I am sure Bill Gates does not like this at all.
The rebuilding of the infrastructure and highways?

I know I am out there with some of the ideas. I am only trying to make some one think of how or where enforcement comes from.

Thanks for taking this in the spirit it was meant sir.
John Hayes

K4ICL
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But wait...

Post by K4ICL » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:35 am

This case is but one among hundreds of illegal transactions eBay allows.

Try this:

Go to eBay and search HF AMPLIFIERS

Your hit list will include about thirty "Ham" HF amplifiers, such goodies as "Texas Star" and the like. ALL out of compliance with existing FCC rules.

Every day there are dozens of people, not just one, who ignore the rules when posting items on eBay.

But wait... Who is really "breaking the rules". If you said "eBay", you would be correct. eBay furnishes the means to the end for the illegal radio sellers and eBay KNOWS THIS. [Did someone say MONEY TALKS?]

So, do you want to change this? If each and every person reading this Topic were to send a respectful PERSONAL email to every US Senator and every US House Member clearly and simply exposing eBay's "ignore the rules" policy, the likes of sisyphus1111 would go away quite shortly. Remember, multiple emails is quite an easy task once you have the receiver lists.

eBay doesn't want their screening practices to be monitored by Congressional edict and they sure don't want the bad publicity such an issue would create.

The above suggestion is the "how" and the "what", only you can determine the "when".

K4ICL

P.S. I almost forgot. When you send the emails to Congress, be sure to send one the eBay contact address too!

WB4KMA
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Location: Orlando, Fl

the costvs the penalty

Post by WB4KMA » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:53 pm

As I said before......this is just one small infraction compared to giant problem.

I wish the only problem in the world were illegal amplifiers.......and people violating the copy right l;aw...like Napster and the music problems thereof..... and people selling Windows even though they should not ..(according to the User Agreement you do own the software for the OS. It goes to one computer and is not to be re-used) and people making illegal copies of movies.....then comes people with illegal stations.

Then again there are people arming teenagers with hate and illegal guns and drugs.

I saw a kid in Ohio last year. He lost his hearing after beaten and left for dead for something SAID OVER A DARN RADIO. He can no longer hear the wonders of our world, nor can hear his voice for his speech.
I saw the guy that beat the kid. Darn it..........over no more than words.

I have a lot better things to accomplish than trying to police e-bay or people selling on e-bay. I take the energy and make something instead of trying to whine about something I could not control.

And when you are finished with the selective enforcement on e-bay.....what about Craigslist......the local papers.......bargain traders...CB ten four publications. Is is right to target one agency cause you wanted them shut down.

Last year I played Santa for 135 childrren who were forgotten.

I found a way for a female born from a Vietnam vet a way to recieve VA checks she was entitled to for having to born with spinal bifida as a result of her dad being exposed to agent orange.

I found a way for a few people to get a job. I was able to teach a kid how to handle a bully in a way he was able to laugh over.

I do not ned a pat on the back. I only hope I can show some one what YOU CAN do instead of what you COMPLAIN about..

The world needs fixing and has some problems. Compared to some of the problems we are about to face, illegal amplifiers are little more than a pimple on a person rear.

If we could respect a differance of opinion and look for a MAJOR problem to unite on, it would probably be a fantastic world.

You bring up a great point sir, I know I went off a bit but I was hoping to make some one see the problem and the BIG PROBLEMS OUT THERE.

Thanks for hearing me out.

qbeams12
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:49 pm

illegal radio equipment sales on ebay

Post by qbeams12 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:59 pm

:shock: :shock: sorry gentlemen,i am not a licensed operator yet. i am currently in the process of reviewing for a test.and do plan to obtain my license.but sha --zammmm,i am a good----buddy as you hammies call us.i join these forums for a whole of what i consider valuable information on the amateur radio world.buuuuuuuuuutttttt it seems like every time i read a forum some ham is always bashin a good---buddy and the good buddy world.hell, even in my own community the local ham club here will not even respond to my repeated requests for testing sessions.kinda makes me feel as if though just because i talk with the good--buddies i wont be accepted.ok im not gonna run away with this but i will end this with one question?what would a licensed operator that follows all of the rules and guidelines set by the fcc and the amateur community............would have to run an amplifier capable of operating well outside of the 1500 watt limit? and i do understand that you wanna make your equipment dependable and heavy duty and hold a 24hour 1500 watt key.but really the henry 8 k.......... commander 2500exp........ homebrew with 2 3cx 3000's ................. doesnt seem to legal to me..

N9LCD
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:32 pm

Post by N9LCD » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:07 pm

It's not illegall to have an amplifier that can put out more than the legal limit as long as it meets spectral purity, stability and you don't radiate any signal beyond the ham bands.

Heck, if you had the cash and a shack big enough, you could have a VOA-surplus 500 KW rig.

YOU JUST CAN'T PUT OUT MORE THAN 1500 WATTS PEP OR WHATEVER THE LEGAL LIMIT & LEGAL EMISSIONS ARE FOR THE BAND YOU'RE USING!

JERRY

N9LCD

WB4KMA
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:49 am
Location: Orlando, Fl

mising something here

Post by WB4KMA » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:29 pm

As I said before in a previous post that got lost, the best place to learn is a local HAM we call ELMERS who can help teach the things and rules you need to learn.

If you have a problem geting tested for the HAM license, give me your zip code and I will try to help there. I am a VE for both the W5YI team and ARRL.

Your comment for the amplifier that can hold a key for an hour and a half needs to be looked at hard.

You should try to concentrate on the antenna, the low loss coax, the radio sation then an amplifier.

In HAM radio you need to ID yourself at least once every ten minutes.
It may be hard to hold the key and forget to ID yourself.

Next issue...........to hold they key down with 1,500 watts for an hour or so on HAM bands is a bit rude too. It is almost like you are implying that you want to block all other traffic than YOU.

The old day amplifiers had problems with oil filled capacitors. After siting for a few months, they would dry out. If you went to plug it in, you needed to use a variac to power it up slowly over the period of a couple of days.

Look at the cost of the tubes for the amplifier too.

N4XTS
Posts: 30
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Re: illegal radio equipment sales on ebay

Post by N4XTS » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:04 am

qbeams12 wrote::shock: :shock: sorry gentlemen,i am not a licensed operator yet. i am currently in the process of reviewing for a test.and do plan to obtain my license.but sha --zammmm,i am a good----buddy as you hammies call us.i join these forums for a whole of what i consider valuable information on the amateur radio world.buuuuuuuuuutttttt it seems like every time i read a forum some ham is always bashin a good---buddy and the good buddy world.hell, even in my own community the local ham club here will not even respond to my repeated requests for testing sessions.kinda makes me feel as if though just because i talk with the good--buddies i wont be accepted.ok im not gonna run away with this but i will end this with one question?what would a licensed operator that follows all of the rules and guidelines set by the fcc and the amateur community............would have to run an amplifier capable of operating well outside of the 1500 watt limit? and i do understand that you wanna make your equipment dependable and heavy duty and hold a 24hour 1500 watt key.but really the henry 8 k.......... commander 2500exp........ homebrew with 2 3cx 3000's ................. doesnt seem to legal to me..
First off, I have nothing against CB radio itself. I hold a valid GMRS license WQJU329 which is indeed part 95 CB radio on UHF. It is an additional resource available to me should I choose/need to use it. I also own a legal 27MHz type accepted CB as well. As a volunteer active in disaster services, I can't think of a better way to assist in shutting down an interstate than channel 19 if we had to.

What alot of us hams have an issue with is people bringing the "CB mentality" to the ham bands. when you graduate to the fraternity of being an amateur radio operator of any license class, you leave the "10-4, back door, roger roger" and other lingo behind. You should also leave the mentality that goes with it behind. Amateur radio operators pride themselves on following the rules and encouraging our fellow hams to do the same. When they don't, we all look bad. The amateur radio service is a valuable one as it is a community of trained technically minded persons who can be a great resource to their community.

As far as the amplifier question, what WMI said is correct. As a ham, many of us have gear CAPABLE of going outside the rules (modded 2m rigs, high powered amps, etc)- the difference between us and the "good buddies" is we have a license we worked for and understand the responsibility of and choose not to stray outside the law.
Amateur radio gets right through.

N4XTS
Posts: 30
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Re: who pays

Post by N4XTS » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:17 am

KI4-WMI wrote:Now here is another thought. All I am doing right now is trying to think differently.

The guys selling illegal radio equipment have not seen a recent major enforcement action from the FCC. You can ask the guy all you want for an ID, does he owe you anything? Are you a law enforcement agent?
Who are you going to call? Have you had much success with a phone call in getting something done?

Do you contribute to a politicians election? It does not seem to matter much about a voter over who helps pay for a campaign. Iwould love to be able to see my senator or congressman over a hamburger vs the 1,000.00 a plate dinners they have for fund raisers.


So many people want bigger jails, more enforcement of certain laws,a chance to be heard, yet few people want to hear of who pays for certain social services.

The ham frequencies are a joy to a lot of us. I have met some fantastic people. I have also met a few whiners who have nothing good to say about anything.
Some people threw a fit over the code / cw option now insteaad of it being mandated.

It may be that our problem is just a small minute tooth of a giant gear that is turning in federal government.

My view point anymore is:
The things I can do something about, I try hard to.
The things I can do nothing about, I move on to what I can do.

Sooner or later things catch up with a person. I have been involved in putting court cases together for 25 years now. Judges are swamped with one heck of a case load of some serious crimes.

Prosecutors are tired of no raises and long hours.

Clerks are frustrated with the records they must keep and who pays for certain services from their office.

Even victims hate to see their name dragged through a public record in the courts and wiating to see if they will be reimbursed over a crime.

Federal corrections officers are frustrated over the overcrowding laws of inmates serving 85 percent of a sentance. A lot of corrections staff are frustrated with baby sitting a prisoner that may have hepatitus, AIDS, STD's and they are not paid a very high amount of hazard pay.

Often we see county correctional officers geting paid better over a antique state run and older jail system.

You have a good point and it deserves merrit sir.I am not defending anyone.

I am hoping I can point out the cost of enforcement and how effective it may or may not be over other crimse they are stuck working on their case load.

Ask yourself something else.............aside from HAMS........does John Q PUblic care about an illegal radio and what happens to the vendor over things such as:

Counterfeit money?
Drug Wars?
Stolen vehicles and not being able to get insurance for certain vehicles?
Drug and health care?
Copy right infringement? Some people still sell copies of Win XP and I am sure Bill Gates does not like this at all.
The rebuilding of the infrastructure and highways?

I know I am out there with some of the ideas. I am only trying to make some one think of how or where enforcement comes from.

Thanks for taking this in the spirit it was meant sir.
John Hayes
actually you are wrong KA4WMI. The FCC has gone after several Ebay sellers and other unscrupulous vendors for selling modified ham gear (both HF and VHF/UHF) and levied fines and forfeitures in the last few years:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/10/29/100/?nc=1

If you spend some time searching the EB's page, there are plenty of NAL's and NOV's issued to peddlers of gear like SISYPHUS1111 is pawning off as commercial gear. In 2004, Riley Hollingsworth issued an NAL to a seller who sold Icom IC-V8 and V8000's as commercial rigs. He also contacted one customer, a fire department in Alabama, and advised them that these radios are not type certified for part 90 use and use of them on that departments' system also placed their license in jeopardy.

Maybe the "new" FCC and Riley's replacement will get back on the job. But to say that there are "more important" issues is unseemly. I think that is relative to the situation. I don't think a volunteer fireman who is on a limited budget who buys some ham rig off Ebay who dies in the line of duty because his VX-150 didn't work in a fire is not important, nor the non-certified gear that puts out spurious emissions or improper user programming that causes QRM to life safety radio services is trivial do you?
Amateur radio gets right through.

WB4KMA
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:49 am
Location: Orlando, Fl

I did my research sir

Post by WB4KMA » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:15 am

Eh..........it sems your research is wrong sir.

Did you look at the date of the last enforcement acton you referred to

NEWINGTON, CT, Oct 29, 2004--


As I said before, it has been a few years since a MAJOR ENFORCEMENT ACTION has taken place. With the budget cuts, I can't blame them either.

I have seen that 4 to 5 year old letter around awhile. Look at the dates sirs before you make a quote.


AS to the next queston or statemnent you made
don't think a volunteer fireman who is on a limited budget who buys some ham rig off Ebay who dies in the line of duty because his VX-150 didn't work in a fire is not important, nor the non-certified gear that puts out spurious emissions or improper user programming that causes QRM to life safety radio services is trivial do you?
_________________

Could you show me a news clipping or research backing that statement up?

I usually try to show two to three resources before I make a judgment call like that one sir.
Regards

shaggy_24740
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Re: radio sales

Post by shaggy_24740 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:46 am

WB4KMA wrote:There are frequencies that I use as a licensed MARS operator that
YOU MAY NOT USE.

I had to be HAM licensed first, then I had to go through a training course
I find nothing wrong with the use of my yaesu 897-d for MARS modification.

It is up to me as a professional to know the frequencies I can transmit on and what to leave alone.

Have you taken the time to look at what what frequencies are allowed on MARS bands?

Could you tell me as an expert technician how to allow these frequencies w/o allowing certain others?

No slam meant at all sir. Just a thoght on a different view point at something we may be missing out on. .
I was going to get MARS certified but there are lots of other things I needed such as Packet and other items to buy. Congrads on your mars bands. I don't know the MARS bands myself. But I try to stay off anything that isn't on my Chart as a General I don't even use CB any more. KC8GBF.
If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck ,Its a Duck

shaggy_24740
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Post by shaggy_24740 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:57 am

N9LCD wrote:It's not illegall to have an amplifier that can put out more than the legal limit as long as it meets spectral purity, stability and you don't radiate any signal beyond the ham bands.

Heck, if you had the cash and a shack big enough, you could have a VOA-surplus 500 KW rig.

YOU JUST CAN'T PUT OUT MORE THAN 1500 WATTS PEP OR WHATEVER THE LEGAL LIMIT & LEGAL EMISSIONS ARE FOR THE BAND YOU'RE USING!

JERRY

N9LCD
Can I jump in here?
If the FCC comes and keys your Amplifier and audios into it and it PEP's over 1500 you're in Deep Hockey. Even though you are a ham you have to abide by the rules.. You can't have an Amplifier that will produce over 1500 pep. Go to www.copper.com and look up the FCC page. They have a ham that got his licence revoked because of this.
A ham with a 2000 watt amp isn't any more leagel than a CB'er with a 2000 watt amp. Soory folks but we have to set an example ....KC8GBF
If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck ,Its a Duck

N8QBY
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:11 pm
Location: Michigan

Post by N8QBY » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:27 pm

Copper Electronics, they are a joke. They have been selling glorified cb radios that they advertise as 10 meter radios, but everyone knows that they are made to be easily converted to the cb band. They have also in years past, sold those amplifiers that do not meet the requirements of the FCC for a legal linear amplifier. Copper is a glorified cb radio site, nothing more.

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