Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Discussion of ways to help ensure a safe trade, so you don't get ripped-off. Do not discuss individuals here. Use the Feedback Forum instead.
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N0JR
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:26 am
Location: Iowa

Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by N0JR » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:55 am

Don't use PayPal? Don't expect to sell your radio very fast or at a very good price. By not using PayPal you tell the buyer
you aren't willing to provide him with the same protections you want for yourself. Want a money order? FORGET IT. Why
should I trust you? You obviously don't trust me. Kindly go to hell.
Don't buy or sell to ANYONE you don't have good reason to trust. Trust is earned, not demanded.

NK7Z
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:51 am
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Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by NK7Z » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:02 am

I must say, I agree 100% with your concept! I can't imagine purchasing something from a person not using PP. I have had endless fights about this on QRZ.COM...
73's and thanks,
For equipment reviews and setups see:
http://www.nk7z.net

N9LCD
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:32 pm

Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by N9LCD » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:21 am

I strongly disagree.

PayPal would have screwed me twice but I reversed their charges on my credit card.

One seller sent me the WRONG ITEM. To get my $4.95 back, I'd have to spend $7.95 for postage back ON TOP OF $7.85 I paid for postage to me.

Another seller wasn't shipping a badly needed household item, After three weeks and NO COMMUNICATIONS, filed a complaint with eBay. LO AND BEHOLD, they gave the seller a "HARDSHIP EXTENSION" because of an auto accident. The item finally arrived. You could hear glass rattle WITHOUT opening the box. Contacted eBay. NO RETURNS! Wrote "REFUSED. RETURN TO SENDER", took it to the P.O. and the seller got it back,

PAYPAL IS NOTHING BUT A MEDDLER BETWEEN BUYERS AND SELLERS.

N9LCD

:evil:

NK7Z
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:51 am
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Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by NK7Z » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:47 am

N9LCD wrote:I strongly disagree.

PayPal would have screwed me twice but I reversed their charges on my credit card.

One seller sent me the WRONG ITEM. To get my $4.95 back, I'd have to spend $7.95 for postage back ON TOP OF $7.85 I paid for postage to me.

Another seller wasn't shipping a badly needed household item, After three weeks and NO COMMUNICATIONS, filed a complaint with eBay. LO AND BEHOLD, they gave the seller a "HARDSHIP EXTENSION" because of an auto accident. The item finally arrived. You could hear glass rattle WITHOUT opening the box. Contacted eBay. NO RETURNS! Wrote "REFUSED. RETURN TO SENDER", took it to the P.O. and the seller got it back,

PAYPAL IS NOTHING BUT A MEDDLER BETWEEN BUYERS AND SELLERS.

N9LCD

:evil:
How odd... I have had no bad experiences with Paypal over a period of at least 10 years of both buying and selling... The bottom line is that if the buyer insists on Paypal, you either use Paypal, or keep your item, and sell it to someone else... Like the first poster stated, If I see a seller not willing to use Paypal, (for ANY reason), I trust him/her less, and I don't deal with them...
73's and thanks,
For equipment reviews and setups see:
http://www.nk7z.net

kk7cox
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:20 am

Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by kk7cox » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:35 am

PayPal adds no security to any transaction. PayPal does add a middleman who takes a cut and keeps your money until they find it convenient to release it to you. PayPal has used some pretty rancid tactics in shutting out firearms and firearms accessories manufacturers and dealers including putting holds on their linked bank accounts when they were accused of selling things that aren't even age specific by law nor were they BATF controlled parts.

I decided to do a Ron Paul and say I'm against them but use them anyway. :?

NK7Z
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:51 am
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Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by NK7Z » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:59 am

kk7cox wrote:PayPal adds no security to any transaction. PayPal does add a middleman who takes a cut and keeps your money until they find it convenient to release it to you. PayPal has used some pretty rancid tactics in shutting out firearms and firearms accessories manufacturers and dealers including putting holds on their linked bank accounts when they were accused of selling things that aren't even age specific by law nor were they BATF controlled parts.

I decided to do a Ron Paul and say I'm against them but use them anyway. :?
Respectfully I must take issue to your statement about Paypal offering no security. Paypal does offer security, and here is a personal example; twice in 10 years I have had issues with a seller... One just took my money and never said another word, and never sent the product. He did not respond to many emails, nor did he respond to many phone calls, in short he took my payment, then dropped off the face of the planet. I later discovered several threads on QRZ.COM, where he had done the same thing to many others... After three weeks of attempting to contact him, in many ways, and allowing for ample time for return communications I involved Paypal. My several hundred dollars were returned within a month, and I am happy to say the Paypal logo was removed from his web site shortly thereafter. Paypal does in fact provide security, so your blanket statement is untrue.

As a seller you always have the right to not use Paypal, and as a buyer I have the right to keep my cash if I feel I need the level of security I perceive Paypal provides, which I do. As I said upthread, I simply have much less trust in a seller if he does not offer Paypal as an option. I simply don't care what his reasons are... Overall it is my perception that sellers using Paypal are less likely to "over describe" a products condition if they are using Paypal. Why? Because they are worried they might have their feet held to the fire for what they said. I am sure you can find cases where the buyer was an ass and just took a seller, but for every case of a buyer taking a seller, I would bet a lot of money there are ten times that many buyers getting taken by subtle description errors, which are always in the sellers favor... Things like an item being called mint, when it is not. Or very good, when it is just good, or poor photos, which accidentally don't show that scratch. We all know most seller put their product(s) in the best possible light, highlighting the best, and suppressing the worst points, both in words and in photos. Paypal keeps that type of seller in check. That is why, when I sell an item, I always take very sharp, very close up photos, so the buyer(s) can judge for themselves the condition of what I am selling. I highlight the flaws if possible, or mention them, or both.

The issue here is that there are going to be bad sellers, and there are going to be bad buyers, I believe the bad sellers outnumber the bad buyers by around 10:1, this is a feeling, and I have no data other than my observations over the past ten or so years of selling/buying, but I don't need to prove anything to anyone but me, so again, I don't care if a seller thinks I am wrong, It's my cash, and I get to spend it as I see fit. Each side is going to get screwed now and then. As a buyer Paypal reduces that risk for me, as a seller, I am willing to trust that same system in reverse. I have never had an issue in a sale-- ever. I have literately sold several hundred items using Paypal, (many big ticket items like telescopes, and accessories selling for thousands of dollars, just sold an Icom 756 PRO III for top dollar using Paypal), over the years, my eBay feedback is 100%, not a single negative comment ever, over ten years. I am very, very careful to describe my items as objectively as possible, and as correctly as possible, highlighting every fault I can find. I know from experience that most sellers do not take that level of care in their descriptions, (that is what I meant by the term "over describing", above), I also note that the vast majority of sellers who "over describe" an item, (and we both know most do), have some, (or lots), of negative feedback. If Paypal ever nicks me, I will defend my position as vigorously as possible, and if I lose, that is the cost of doing business if I use Paypal, which I always offer on all sales.

The first argument I always see in a Paypal discussion is how Paypal takes a cut... We all know the seller increases the price to cover his/her costs, (no matter what Paypal says), so that argument is porous at best, and in my mind a total waste of time and space to even bring up. The counter-argument that Paypal does not allow that is simply a sham, people simply increase the price of the item to cover costs, and never say a word about it. Paypal knows this, the seller knows this, and the buyer should know this. It is simple marketing for Paypal to say the seller can't do that.... "Wink, wink, nudge nudge" style marketing. The second argument is that paypal can lock a bank account... Easily fixed, get a second account... So all three of your arguments to me, appear to be fallacious.
73's and thanks,
For equipment reviews and setups see:
http://www.nk7z.net

w4qg
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:45 pm

Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by w4qg » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:42 pm

I agree PayPal is great from a buyers prospective. Unfortunately they are instituting changes that are terrible for sellers.

Starting November 18th they are instituting buyer protection for up to 180 days.
Essentially it is a 6 month money back guarantee. This was instituted by PayPal to avoid loosing money on credit card charge backs.
I am sure there are folks selling gear who have no idea this is going on.

From PayPal:

"We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.”" - this effects ALL PayPal purchases. New, used and from ANY vendor. Business or individual.

-- In other words: any buyer using PayPal to purchase items from online vendors will enjoy a six-month return window, which in turn means no seller can assume a transaction is truly complete (and payment received truly theirs) for that long.

Frankly, any seller of used equipment that uses PayPal after November 18th has got to be crazy. You are now in the extended warranty business.

REALLY a bad idea from PayPal.

eazk9fon
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:54 pm

Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by eazk9fon » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:03 pm

I use Paypal as it weeds out the rip off and cons.. If the sellers balks im out and done!!!

n0uy
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:58 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by n0uy » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:53 pm

I agree that payPal has a level of security for the buyer. I have used them quite often when buying almost anything on the web, not just on this site. I make my donations to this site and others like it via PP.

I am certain that there may be some instances where other payment methods are totally suitable, just not as handy or quick. There is a couple sellers who are frequently on this site who insist only on USPS MO and will accept no other MO without holding the items for weeks until they are satisfied with the funds. Even if you use USPS MO they still do not ship an item until they are satisfied with the payment. With the PP method the items are normally shipped same day or the next. Now how can you beat a system like that if you are the buyer? In my opinion, most of the time you can't.

I have sold items here on qth and accepted PP, MO, and personal checks. Being from a farm based rural community where you trust almost everyone, I have shipped the items long before the funds arrived. Does that make me stupid? I judge the person by their mannor in which they corrispond and pecieved sincerity. Does that make me a fool? I don't think so. I am just confident in my fellow ham not be be a crook and a cheat. If you loose all faith in humanity what do we have left? I often but not always contact the buyer afterwards to make certain they are satisfied with the sale and packaging. My parents always taught me to go that extra step. 73 Ray

eazk9fon
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:54 pm

Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by eazk9fon » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:23 pm

N0JR wrote:Don't use PayPal? Don't expect to sell your radio very fast or at a very good price. By not using PayPal you tell the buyer
you aren't willing to provide him with the same protections you want for yourself. Want a money order? FORGET IT. Why
should I trust you? You obviously don't trust me. Kindly go to hell.

Amen. Same here... No Paypal, NO DEAL!!!!

panhead
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Use PayPal or Don't Sell

Post by panhead » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:42 pm

Agree 100%. When sellers demand payment methods that offer buyers no reasonable recourse, one must assume there is a reason. Most buyers are happy to pay the 3% fee for the seller. A seller not willing to trust me makes me suspicious - therefore I cease trusting them. All reputable merchants accept credit cards and all credit card companies offer users chargeback protections. My personal view: no paypal = not reputable. IMHO

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