Ham Operator GREED

This is the place to discuss the QTH.com Classifieds (http://swap.qth.com). Please be constructive.
kk4aq
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I must agree !

Post by kk4aq » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:44 am

I have been buying ,selling ,tradeing for years and lately i have noticed the prices of used equiptment is getting totally out of hand.i have seen stuff on this board and others for 2.5 times its value.maybe every one thinks every thing is a 1 of a kind or a collectable or something. i know the rule of what the market will bear is said but a tempo 200 rig $550.00 and a bare bones kenwood ts520 $800.00. thats totally insane.maybe im looking at things wrong but i think the guy who started this post is correct. just my 2 cents

N4XTS
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Post by N4XTS » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:47 am

Price is relative to what people are willing to pay. Apparently, there are plenty of suckers willing to pay these prices. I would not pay near list price for a USED electronic item when I can obtain a NEW unit never touched sealed in the package with a FULL MANUFACTURER'S WARRANTY for a few dollars more. But apparently the economy isn't as bad as some may say as plenty of people have tons of disposable income to blow on used gear.

The downside to this are the number of ripoff prices that are now showing up on gear at hamfest and swap meets. The sellers say "it goes for xxxx on EBAY". Well this isn't Ebay and you don't have the overhead of Ebay's ripoff fees, shipping, Paypal, etc- so adjust your price accordingly. At the end of the day, it's still used electronic items and like the sellers always say "guaranteed to be as decribed but AS-IS with no warranty" so pay accordingly.
Amateur radio gets right through.

WN3R
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Not Greed

Post by WN3R » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:54 am

In this market, for that matter, any market, the seller is free to ask any price and the buyer is free to offer any price. I think I probably overpay for virtually every used ham item I've ever purchased. I'm satisfied because in 95% of the cases, I have received an item that has been in close to perfect in operating condition and looked very good as well. I actually pay more for 1950-1960's gear than it sold for new. The rule of thumb I use for newer gear is much different. If it is an item that can still be purchased new, I want to save at least 20% if it's only a few years old. More if it's older. Some items that I've purchased, I was able to sell for the same price after using it for 10-20 years. You can do that if you know what to buy and how much to pay for it.

Never buy an item you know nothing about. Do your homework. A newcomer should never buy anything without help from a knowledgeable and experience ham. And when you can buy locally.

It's the buyer who needs to be aware as the saying goes. It's his job to buy right. It's the seller's job to sell for top dollar. The buyer should know that.

Buying on eBay takes some special skill. Never bid more than you want to pay. Be prepared for someone to pay more because he/she wants the "win".

When I bid, my first price is my only price. That way, I never get emotional about it. I lose many items by a dollar or two. Yet, I get many items cheaper than I expected. Sometimes I will bid 20 different times on 20 of the same item simply because I am unwilling to overpay.

I have found that on eBay the items commanding higher than normal prices close on Sunday night. If you want a chance at a bargain, look for items closing the soonest at any time other than Sunday night.

I prefer to buy from people who list on QTH.com or Eham.net.

Bachluvr
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Post by Bachluvr » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:29 am

Once sellers see what ham gear is selling for on Ebay, they believe they can use those, often inflated prices, as a gauge as to what to list equipment for here. I'm dumbfounded to see some of the high prices things go for . . . and many high prices my stuff sells for there. My attitude for selling on Ebay is to list for 99 cents and let the buyers determine an item's worth. It's unfortunate to see those Ebay prices at the Dayton Flea Market!

kg8lb
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Post by kg8lb » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:38 am

"Greed" is a word often used by people to betray their envy.
If you don't like the asking price find another one. If you cannot it must be market forces driving the price. An unwillingmess to pay the market price seems a lot like "GREED" as well doesn't it ? Perhaps a counter-offer is in order ? Whining is usually ineffective. The world doesn't owe someone a low price.Just turn the page and continue your search. If you cannot find one at a price you are willing to pay, the "greed" may be your own. "Envy" and "greed" often walk hand in hand.

K9XR
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

I couldn't agree more

Post by K9XR » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:22 pm

I couldn't agree more! Believe it or not there is a guy on QTH trying to sell a used wattmeter for $111 that can be bought at CHEAPHAM. COM for $69 brand new and with a full 2 year warranty. Can you belive it? I don't!
N8PQB wrote:Another thought...
I have found used gear at radio dealers, (R&L Electronics and Universal Radio) for less than some are asking here in the web. In addition, they mormally offer a 90 day warranty on a lot of stuff.

K3JSN

N9LCD
Posts: 321
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EBAY???

Post by N9LCD » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:51 pm

Don't bellyache!

eBAY auction prices, in some cases, are used as the "FAIR MARKET VALUE" for donations to charity, casualty losses, etc.

The only bad thing about "FAIR MARKET VALUE" is that it's relative -- relative to wether you're the seller or the buyer!

N9LCD

K9XR
Posts: 416
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Re: EBAY???

Post by K9XR » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:05 pm

WHAT?????


N9LCD wrote:Don't bellyache!

eBAY auction prices, in some cases, are used as the "FAIR MARKET VALUE" for donations to charity, casualty losses, etc.

The only bad thing about "FAIR MARKET VALUE" is that it's relative -- relative to wether you're the seller or the buyer!

N9LCD

kw4h
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Post by kw4h » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:21 am

I'm not advocating overpricing stuff, but to be fair there are often good reasons for a premium price on certain items. For example, the car I drive (a Volkswagen diesel) retains a higher value as a used car because of what it is. Some boatanchor radios go for higher prices because they're antiques and have certain nostalgic value. I occasionally resell the new Elecraft KX-1 radios I love to build, for 50 bucks more than I buy the kits for -- because there is value in my time as an electronics technician and it relieves the purchaser of the burden of building the radio (some people don't have the ability or patience to build these things -- you have to use a magnifier and it's like building a watch). The 50 bucks goes towards a dinner out with the XYL.

As a general rule of thumb, I think the market tends to prevail. People who overprice used equipment will usually not be able to sell it. And to be honest with you, I think that QTH is a breath of fresh air compared to the overpriced claptrap I've seen at many hamfests -- equipment that looked like it was dredged up off the bottom of the sea, and then laid out for sale at top dollar.

Steve, KW4H

KA9MOT
Posts: 282
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And the other side of the same coin....

Post by KA9MOT » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:56 pm

I'm selling a 6 month old filter for a Kenwood TS-480 and a "fellow Ham" send me an email that claims he has been unemployed for 4 years and would I accept $25 less AND ship.

I did a little research, his QRZ BIO says he is RETIRED (2004), he has a Wanted ad here, that says he lives on SSI. He lives in a $300,000 home in Florida

I sent him an email back saying that my price was fair ($100 shipped) and I live on less then $1000 a month disability.
His reply was that he lives on LESS and has a wife at home and a kid in college...........

Poor guy! My rent costs me $450 a month to live in a dump. I have a wife and 2 kids at home.

I don't mind somebody trying to haggle me down, but I dislike being lied to very much. I'm as sympathetic as the next guy but don't try to play me. I wonder how many people this guy has played in the past.

If things are so tough in Florida maybe he should sell his mansion.
Steve - KA9MOT

W3KFQ
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:01 am

I paid too much

Post by W3KFQ » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:19 am

It would pay one and all to look at other venues beside ham radio, they all suffer the same indignities.

Dealing with quixotic human nature and less than admirable behavior is not confined to amateur radio, you find it in virtually all walks of life.

Your folks told you as a kid that there were lots of perils out there, and to pay attention, and try your best to avoid falling victim to them.

No one said it got better as you got older, there will always be those among us that try their best to part us from our resources.

Venting soothes the bite, doing due diligence lessens the chances of being bitten.
Education is never obsolete, only misused

kg8lb
Posts: 266
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Re: Look around you...

Post by kg8lb » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:50 pm

K4ICL wrote:Perhaps, it's time for a reality check...

Folks, the Internet is a near-perfect rendition of the world market. Not your neighborhood club swap fest, not Shelby Hamfest, not even Dayton. The Internet is a 24-7-52 market with few limits and millions of potential customers from all over the world.

Grow Up with it! Learn to use it but PLEASE quit whining about greed, or dishonesty, or air you pet peeve just so you can feel good about sounding off or for any other reason. Instead, recognize it for what it is--your private portal to the entire ham radio interested audience on the planet. What this mean is you have got to upgrade your trading skills and your people skills. One thing is for sure, you are not going to change the other people using the market!

Asking prices are not aimed a you personally. They are, as they should be, aimed at the world market. A high price in El Paso, Texas may be a dirt cheap price in Moscow.

I urge you to accept the Internet world market for what it is. Use it to your advantage as ALL OTHERS are doing, and quit wasting bandwidth complaining about something new.

Finally, what you see on the Internet today will look like child's play five years from now. The Internet is growing, each day more users join the world market portal. We are not going to like all that is new and will be sad to see some of the now-familiar things go away. So what? Stay flexible and be happy.

Respectfully,

K4ICL
Times 2
OK, So where are the filters now ?

kg8lb
Posts: 266
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Re: Just a hobby...

Post by kg8lb » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:51 pm

K4ICL wrote:Floyd:

Here is the deal. You have expressed your opion and I respect your right to do so.

All I ask in return is the same respect when I express my opinion.

My role as a moderator is totally irrelevant.

Happy hamming Floyd and lighten up. This is a hobby, not a carreer; okay...

AL
TIMES 10 !
OK, So where are the filters now ?

shaggy_24740
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Re: Ham Operator GREED

Post by shaggy_24740 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:13 am

VE6ZM wrote:Well I am going to say what I am sure many Hams visiting this and other swap sites are thinking. Why the hell are most of you guys selling USED, sometimes VERY USED equipment for 80-100% of new prices. Ham radio is on the decline for several reasons one of them is the access to AFFORDABLE equipment. Anyone asking 90% for a well used piece of equipment should be ashamed of themselves. They are doing themselves and more importantly the Ham community a huge disservice. I have been into ham for 30 years and it was not always like this. I can honestly say I am disgusted and the level of greed exercised by a growing number of hams. Anyone thinking of buying used equipment should do a little research and you may find that MANY of the people selling used equipment on this site are asking almost new prices. And if they say it is still under warranty, you better check that out to because the manufacturer may not transfer warranties. So is it worth it to save $50 dollars on a piece of equipment selling for just over $700 new? I can site COUNTLESS examples. One being the FT 857D which sells for around $700 (with the separation kit) new if you look around, while some on the site are/were asking almost the same price and the radio is 2 years old! If you want your equipment to be worthless in 10 years keep the prices high so no up and coming hams can afford equipment and not get into the hobby. If you are not selling antiques or collector radios/equipment chances are that prices go down. Just because you paid $500 for something 5 years ago does not warrent you selling it for the same price or more. Thanks but I think I will buy new from now on! Shame on you and you know who you are!

Thanks
Dan
VE6ZM
They base their prices on what it sells for on EBAY go to EBAY and click on what's it worth. And EBAY will have it listed as average of what they are selling for on the EBAY site. EBAY is too high of a risk to be pricing anything.
I got $630 for my ft-920 with the TXO and all filters installed over $800 in extras, and the Idiot striped it and made me take it back telling PAY PAL it was significantly not as described.
Oh they said they would watch the guy, But i care less if they watch him or not.
If an Item sells on EBAY and I see what it's worth on EBAY i take 50% off the price, and If I don't get it for that I don't buy. Heck A HAM radio is a good hobby, but nothing to die for. :P
If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck ,Its a Duck

kg8lb
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:37 pm

Post by kg8lb » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:20 am

The asking prices here on QTH are often far higher than selling prices on eBay.
No big deal . If you don't like the price keep looking.
Last edited by kg8lb on Thu May 05, 2011 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
OK, So where are the filters now ?

N0BOX
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Post by N0BOX » Thu May 05, 2011 7:20 am

I've noticed this issue, and I count myself very lucky that I found an FT-857D for a reasonable price.

Now I am just glad that I can turn around and list the radio 10 years from now for twice as much as I paid for it and some dumb sucker will pay the price and thank me for the deal.
Matt, N0BOX, the IT Wannabe
http://www.itwannabe.com/

eric
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:24 am

Post by eric » Thu May 05, 2011 11:45 pm

Im always seeing Kenwood TL 922 HF amps sell for $1200.00 and the amp is over 20 yers old!!!!!! I never could understand WHY this particular amp sells for so much more than other dual 3-500Z amps....
K9FON
No BS ham radio for me. I don't play ham politics, i.e. code/no code, Cb vs Ham, ect, ect.

W6GQ
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Post by W6GQ » Thu May 12, 2011 1:18 am

ASK high, negotiate reasonable.

I have listed MANY items,

If I list an item for $200, people try to get it for $100

If I list the same item for $300, i get offers of $200

If the person pays $300, well, I do my research when I buy something sooooooooo

kg8lb
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Post by kg8lb » Tue May 17, 2011 6:48 pm

No duplicity here. I prefer to keep it simple. I ask a firm, fair price knowing the value . An educated buyer knows that the price is fair. The low ballers get a simple no thanks, first one with the asking price wins.
Asking high and hoping for an iniformed buyer or listing for blind bidding - "best offer" is just trolling for suckers.
On the rare occasions when I do not know what a fair price should be I sell on ebay. At that point the market decides the price.

Different strokes..
OK, So where are the filters now ?

ke7uxe
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Post by ke7uxe » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:16 am

I agree with K4ICL. This trend is going to continue. I have been trying to buy an FT-920 for weeks. I have been hit with prices that I felt were absurd. One guy whose price was fair won't answer my emails. Anyway. There is nothing wrong with making an offer on stuff. I do it all the time. Most often I find out that the item has sold at the price I consider too high. Oh well. Move on. Sometimes I get something for exactly what I am willing to pay for it.

Consider. A purchaser on ebay pays more generally than someone here. But. They get some protection with that price. Often here we are asked to send a postal money order to someone we do not know for a piece of equipment we have not seen. I don't see QTH standing behind the purchase if I am ripped off. Ebay does to some extent.

Not all equipment here is overpriced. I have made some wonderful deals and offered a few myself. I have given stuff away on this forum because I did not need it anymore and someone might. (No Icom 7000's but some simple stuff that is not worth exchanging money for.) Maybe those who complain about prices could go to their closet and offer some deals. In the meantime feel free not to make offers on items you think are priced to high. I will be happy to do it for you.

(The Obama comments were childish and off topics. But no surprise considering the source......)

KJ6AMF
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Post by KJ6AMF » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:06 pm

If you only look at QTH ads once a day or so, it may seem like alot of the stuff is way over priced. But consider this, low price stuff sells quickly and an attentive seller will quickly pull the ad. The high price stuff stays posted with nary an offer.

I've bought like new rigs for as much as half off retail (for ones still being sold) or significantly cheaper than the typical use list price for older items. But those times when I've been most successful in getting a good buy are usually very late at night or very early in the morning on weekdays when most people aren't at their computers. I spot the ad, ask for the item and offer to pay with Paypal. If they come back immediately with an account, I make the deposit and the rig is mine. The ad is usually pulled minutes later and no one else sees it.

kg8lb
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:37 pm

Post by kg8lb » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:32 pm

I watch both pretty closely. The same thing often happens on eBay. A very low Buy It Now price will pop up and you simply hit the button and pay.

w5rkl
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Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:28 am

Post by w5rkl » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:52 pm

While I agree that folks have a right to voice their opinion about sellers who may or may not be greedy and/or buyers who dislike what they believe is a greedy seller, what I don't agree with is adding politics to the topic.

President Obama has nothing to do with a seller who may or may not be greedy nor does the President have anything to do with a buyer who doesn't like a greedy seller. Let's leave politics out and focus on the actual topic instead.

K3DC
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:23 pm
Location: Florida East Coast

Greedy Hams, or simple economics?

Post by K3DC » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:38 pm

I'm a newcomer here (this is my first posting on the forum), but I've been around Ham Radio for a while, so my perspective might be a bit different from some expressed opinions here. SO, take it with a grain of salt- or the whole shaker, if that's your preference. :wink: Opinions are like backsides- everyone has one, and no one's fits anyone else.

I can remember buying rigs and parts for homebrew projects at hamfests back in the Seventies for much less than those same rigs and parts sell for now- rigs and parts that were MUCH newer then. They were also more plentiful; that's important.

Anyone who's tried to build even a simple antenna tuner recently knows that parts I could buy for $5 to $10 then will cost from $50 to $100 now, IF you can find them at all- and GOOD LUCK on finding them in good condition! Add the price of copper, silver and other materials into the mix, and it's really not hard to see where it's gone, and why. Many old parts have either broken, worn out or been recycled/junked, and they're scarce. That determines price as much as anything.

Older rigs often bring a premium price because they're user-serviceable- you can align or repair them without a whole lab full of equipment. Newer is not always better- just shinier and with more features (many of which some of us don't need). Again, demand drives the market- just look at SB-220 prices, especially with the Harbach mods like mine. I could easily get twice what I paid for it 15 years ago on any forum, including this one.

Then there's the P.T.Barnum factor- some people don't know what an item is worth, and they get carried away in the feeding frenzy at the end of an auction- that's where "I've just GOT to win this thing!" can cloud a normally sane person's judgment and they get in over their head. We've all been there at least once, too- whether we'll admit it or not.

All said, there are many factors in play- it's too complex to cover with simple greed, although that can certainly play a part. It boils down to HUMAN NATURE, especially in the rough times we're now going through. Let's keep it all in perspective, and try to look charitably on each other. We ALL have our faults. OK, that's my 2 cents worth- now let the brickbats fly!

73, Bill

curt
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:25 am

Post by curt » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:21 pm

k0pd wrote:...(good answer, totally on subject)

I thought it was a good response to complaining over buying used as Albert K4icl answered it perfectly.Most Obama supporters that i've heard sound the same way on buisiness companies......
Why does this have to become political?

I see Al's point and I see the original poster's point as well.

If QTH exists to save 5 percent, why bother is a logical mind set, but as Al pointed out, it's not personal hence is it really greed or trying to get every buck one can?

Ham radio is a hobby not charity, nor a business.

Personally when I pass on I will have my son post my items and give them away to a young ham.

All the feathers getting ruffled over silliness here, or is it called---passion---lol :roll: :roll:

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