New Hams read this, it may help in buying a rig!!!

This is the place to discuss the QTH.com Classifieds (http://swap.qth.com). Please be constructive.
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NZ4Q
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Location: Ball Ground, GA

New Hams read this, it may help in buying a rig!!!

Post by NZ4Q » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:23 pm

Just some thoughts from the desk of NZ4Q, as I have read these ads over the years stating I worked over a hundred or two, confirmed countries. I am wondering what this person is thinking? Does he think it makes this radio better, more powerful; maybe this will attract a new ham into buying or what? If I looked at the ad and wanted to buy this rig that had over a hundred countries confirmed from it, too me the rig is worn out! Some operator’s take a lifetime to make this many contacts and some I guess a few days.

I have found over the years that the scale from 1 thru 10 does have a great deal of variations to it. As I have seen some rated at a 9.9 and when I saw it I was thinking maybe 5.0. How do we judge this, does one scratch and two rubber rub marks mean it is a 9.9 on a scale of 10. I have always hoped that when I purchased a new rig that it would be a 10, but it is possible its not. Some of the rigs I have bought over the years have been over rated but some have been under rated. I know today with the high speed internet and all the pictures we can send, makes it easy to look it over, but use caution look around the picture, to see if it maybe just a display picture and not the one forsale.

These thoughts are hopefully to be helpful to our new hams, not intended to target anyone for the way they present their ads. This is not intended to harm the sells of used equipment for I have bought many over the years and still do. I have a friend, new ham that has been burned twice now. I remember my early days and I trusted everyone also.

NZ4Q
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Buyers Beware!!!

Post by NZ4Q » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:19 am

Amazing how some sellers state buyers must pay insurance on shipped item you are buying! Buyers do you not know this insurance is for the seller only, not you? If the package is damaged in shipping, you as the buyer must report it but the seller must make the claim. Shippers only pay to the person who shipped the item, if the seller is crooked as has been before on here he gets paid twice, by you for him to ship it and again by the shipper if it is damaged!
Ken
NZ4Q

K4ICL
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I am not sure what you mean...

Post by K4ICL » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:05 pm

The seller is totally responsible for executing the packing and shipping in such a manner that the shipped item arrives in the same condition as it was sent.

In most cases, the seller requires the buyer to pay the costs of packing and shipping and insurance. This is is how things work on the planet.

If the buyer is smart, he will require the shipment be insured to the extent that if the item is damaged or is lost it will be repaired or replaced without cost to the buyer. He must also must pay the seller for the cost of such insurance. I suggest the amount be no less than one and one-half times the worth of the item(s).

If the buyer does not require insurance and the item is damaged or lost:

1) When the packing is done properly--the buyer is responsible for all costs needed to repair or replace the item because he did not have his shipment insured.

2) When the packing is NOT done properly and the damage was caused by improper packing--the seller is responsible for all cost needed to repair or replace the item. This is why sellers should insist on having their buyers insure their shipments!

If the buyer has paid for shipping insurance and the items is damaged or lost:

3) When the packing is done properly--the seller is responsible for completing all tasks required by the carrier to secure insurance funds required to repair or replace and loss. The insurance funds paid by the carrier do not belong to the seller! ALL of the insurance monies paid to the shipper belongs to the buyer. He paid for the insurance and the seller is only acting as his agent in the matter.

4) When the packing in NOT done properly it is not likely there will be a suitable insurance settlement. This is why the task of packing should not be taken lightly and sellers need to insist on having shipments properly insured.

5) If the buyer has paid a proper amount for agreed-to insurance and the seller fails to insure the shipment for the agreed-to amount, the seller is guilty of stealing the buyers money and becomes TOTALLY responsible for any and all damage to the shipment he shipped to his buyer. He may also be prosecuted for theft.

There is a way to make dealing with shipping damage or loss less stressful on all parties involved:

The seller secures the package(s) size and weight information from his seller. He then sends or emails a prepaid shipping label(s) to his seller. This way the buyer is also the shipper and any damage or loss issues can be dealt with by the buyer directly with the carrier. This relieves the seller of the burden of dealing with carrier insurance and gives the buyer much more control of the process.

K4ICL

hamradman
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Post by hamradman » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:08 pm

Ken I agree with you on how wrong some people rate the item they are selling. If an item is rated a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 that means perfect. I have seen radios for sale and the ad said it was a 10 but had a few small marks on the back or bottom. That is not a 10, it is a 9 or 9.5 at best. When I see someone listing an item and they say mint that means new in the box, never used. I saw an ad that said "I have had this radio for 2 years and it has worked fine and it comes with a mic, power cord & copy of maual on CD, it is in mint condition". No it is not mint if you used it for 2 years, no original manual and no box. Go and ask a coin dealer what the word mint means.

N9LCD
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MINT???

Post by N9LCD » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:40 pm

Ken:

The correct term for coins is uncirculated. There are TEN grades of "uncirculated" ranging from MS (mint state) 60, an average uncirculated coin as received today in a roll from the Fed, to MS 70, a specially struck and handled "proof" piece.

ALL uncirculated coins ARE NOT equal. Large, heavy coins like the silver dollar and double eagle gold piece were more susceptible to damage in handling. Their uncirculated state may not be comparable to that of the Lincoln cent.

Today when a coin is professionally graded it is examined by three (or more) experts in that particular coin and the assigned grade is a consensus of opinions rather than an individual opinion.

The same applies to electronic gear. A five-year old rig used weekly to check into a net IS NOT equivalent to the same rig, only two years old, that has had full power, high duty cycle use during contests and sweepstakes.

Allowing that electronic gear may be checked for compliance with manufacturer's specifications, HOW VALID are the specifications? To my knowledge only one manufacturer, Icom, actually states "SPECIFICATIONS GUARANTEED". Then there's the question of how the manufacturer checks for compliance with "specifications". After market checks are only valid to the extent that they are conducted with the same equipment and under the same conditions as used by the manufacturer.

Let's face up to it: HOW MANY OF US ARE IN THE SAME CONDITION AS WE WERE WHEN WE WERE FIRST LICENSED?

The same applies to our gear.

N9LCD

:shock:

KA2CDT
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Post by KA2CDT » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:48 pm

hamradman wrote:Ken I agree with you on how wrong some people rate the item they are selling. If an item is rated a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 that means perfect. I have seen radios for sale and the ad said it was a 10 but had a few small marks on the back or bottom. That is not a 10, it is a 9 or 9.5 at best. When I see someone listing an item and they say mint that means new in the box, never used. I saw an ad that said "I have had this radio for 2 years and it has worked fine and it comes with a mic, power cord & copy of maual on CD, it is in mint condition". No it is not mint if you used it for 2 years, no original manual and no box. Go and ask a coin dealer what the word mint means.
In my opinion age has nothing to do with condition of the radio. Because a radio is 2 years old and had been used everyday does not mean the radio itself is not mint. A few years ago I sold my Hallicrafters SX-101a receiver. I advertised it as "mint" condition. The Ham who bought it emailed me back and said "this radio is not mint, it is pristine"! I had no box or manual. Of course in my case that was an extreme example. I agree there are radios being offered for sale of being in "as new" condition that are no way near that.Just my 2 cents... :D
Oldschool-Hams Helping Hams
73
Ronald G. DeAngelis KA2CDT
Marco Island,Florida 34145
25.95°N 81.72°W
www.KA2CDT.com

hamradman
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Post by hamradman » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:15 pm

Ron,
Webster's dictionary defines the word "mint" when used as an adjective (and thats what it is when used to discribe condition) as "unused, perfect condition".
Your 101 was used so not mint. Yes the buyer was correct to call it pristine.

KA2CDT
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Post by KA2CDT » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:36 pm

hamradman wrote:Ron,
Webster's dictionary defines the word "mint" when used as an adjective (and thats what it is when used to discribe condition) as "unused, perfect condition".
Your 101 was used so not mint. Yes the buyer was correct to call it pristine.
This is a perfect example as to why the perception of the condition of a radio is debated. To me "pristine" is one better than "mint". To you radman mint is better than pristine. I am impressed though that you actually took the time to look up the definition in Websters! :wink:
Oldschool-Hams Helping Hams
73
Ronald G. DeAngelis KA2CDT
Marco Island,Florida 34145
25.95°N 81.72°W
www.KA2CDT.com

KA2CDT
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Post by KA2CDT » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:43 pm

Now you have me doing it radman!

According to Websters here is the definition of pristine. Look at the last part,the synonym is "brand-new" and "mint". :) No wonder we have so many perceptions!!


b : fresh and clean as or as if new <used>
— pris·tine·ly adverb
See pristine defined for English-language learners »
Examples of PRISTINE

1. My office is a mess but her office is always pristine.
2. He was wearing a pristine white shirt.

Origin of PRISTINE
Latin pristinus; akin to Latin prior
First Known Use: 1534
Related to PRISTINE
Synonyms: brand-new, mint,
Oldschool-Hams Helping Hams
73
Ronald G. DeAngelis KA2CDT
Marco Island,Florida 34145
25.95°N 81.72°W
www.KA2CDT.com

AC8IR
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:11 pm

Post by AC8IR » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:59 pm

KA2CDT wrote:
hamradman wrote:Ken I agree with you on how wrong some people rate the item they are selling. If an item is rated a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 that means perfect. I have seen radios for sale and the ad said it was a 10 but had a few small marks on the back or bottom. That is not a 10, it is a 9 or 9.5 at best. When I see someone listing an item and they say mint that means new in the box, never used. I saw an ad that said "I have had this radio for 2 years and it has worked fine and it comes with a mic, power cord & copy of maual on CD, it is in mint condition". No it is not mint if you used it for 2 years, no original manual and no box. Go and ask a coin dealer what the word mint means.
In my opinion age has nothing to do with condition of the radio. Because a radio is 2 years old and had been used everyday does not mean the radio itself is not mint. A few years ago I sold my Hallicrafters SX-101a receiver. I advertised it as "mint" condition. The Ham who bought it emailed me back and said "this radio is not mint, it is pristine"! I had no box or manual. Of course in my case that was an extreme example. I agree there are radios being offered for sale of being in "as new" condition that are no way near that.Just my 2 cents... :D
What has contesting to do with the condition of a used rig....absolutely nothing!!!!

When I purchase a used rig I want one that has been used hard...contesting...DXing...the whole ball of wax...put through it paces to the max!!!

WHY???...

It means the damned thing works...and any component that is substandard to the task will have met its demise.

You are not buying a pair of shoes...you are buying electronic equipment.

There are way too many hams who have chosen the wrong hobby.

They equate used radios with used cars.

They have a license that allows them to talk on the radio...but alas know nothing of the hobby or electronics...they are of the opinion that a rig less used is better than one well used and taxed to its potential.

Please for the sake of the rest of us...forget this...you need to do something else...like chasing NASCAR.

73

Michael
AC8IR

K4ICL
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Here is an easy way to "grade" ham equipment.

Post by K4ICL » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:02 pm

If you were to click on the URL below you will find extensive criteria for establishing an assessment of condition of just about any ham gear on the planet.

The scale was originally developed as the 1-10 variety but some users attempted to place too much emphasis on the number, rather than its practical meaning. So the scale was changed to a real "grade", so most would quickly recognize from school days.

If you click on a "grade," after accessing the site, you will be shown the detailed criteria a piece of gear must have to "make the grade."

The criteria was created by reviewing all proposed grading scales found at the time.

http://k4icl.com/gradescale.htm

Hope this helps...

AL

lhk0pd
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Post by lhk0pd » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:59 pm

Al i would say you did a very good and complete explanation of the seller and buyers responsibilities..
Larry Huff K0pd

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