Not DOA However As With All Electronics This Is "AS IS

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Not DOA However As With All Electronics This Is "AS IS

Post by w8jn » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:49 am

Have you ever seen anything as stupid as the above title? Someone lists something as "Guaranteed not DOA, however as with all Items like this it is sold "AS IS". Well... is it guaranteed or not? Are you honest? Is guaranteed to be "Not DOA" and you will refund all monies, including shipping, or is it not guaranteed and you are telling us "trust you, its a great piece of equipment, however if it's not you are SOL"? Please translate this into english. I am looking at an ad running on QTH for a yaesu "CB" station that is excellent and works as it should and has been checked out by a tech (whats a tech), "however as with all equipment like this no guarantee" Come on....... Guaranteed or CB Junkola?
Caveat Emptor 73 Paul W8jn

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Post by KC4RAN » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:13 am

From what I gather, it basically means that the only guarantee is that the item will not be completely dead when it arrives. It will power on. However, the seller will not be taking it back for a sticky bandswitch, or for insufficient deviation on 144.67, or even for no receive on 15 meters.

Plain and simple, it means that I'm not shipping you a brick, but since it's electrical I can't guarantee that it does what it should when you receive it. If you want a guarantee, you'll probably need to buy from a retail shop. Even then, I doubt you'll get much more than "as-is".

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Post by N8PQB » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:20 am

I have seen this statement on several ads. IMHO this means, "there are some issues I don't understand so I am covering my _ss."
I think you have to want the advertised item really, really bad if you buy it with this kind of warning.
Somewhere within the many threads listed on this site was a brief guide of what should you be leary of. As I remember...
1. No mic included
2. A minor issue with the XYZ thingy, probably just a sticky relay
3. Its real easy to fix, I just don't have the time. You have to ask yourself, would it be better to sell a rig that works perfect, or one with issues you don't have time to fix. This is a no brainer!

Tom, N8PQB

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Post by KC4RAN » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:46 pm

Do you realistically think you can test each and every aspect of the device the same way the factory did? Would you consider it reasonable if someone came back with a refund request because the notch filter was 20Hz wider than factory specs? Would you even know to test that?

I wouldn't. I don't have the equipment, and honestly it's not worth me putting the dozens of hours it would take to do a factory-thorough test on an HF rig. Even a shop that specializes in selling used radios doesn't do the full suite, but they do more than I can do at the house. I'm not going to go drop 20K on a spec-an so I can see if the 3rd order IMD is within spec, just to sell a $300 radio.

And those shops that take in and sell used gear handle those returns in much the same way. But they have the monetary flexibility (through volume) to handle the odd here-and-there return. Someone selling a personal radio, or even surplus from an estate sale, probably can't afford to have someone return an item to them for BS reasons.

I have a stack of equipment on eBay right now. It was stuff I bought from an estate of a recent SK, in bulk. I kept a few of the items I needed to make my station more complete, and I'm selling the things that I don't have use for. I tested everything as best I reasonably can.

Did I run RTTY through it? Nope. Did I test the ACC port? Nope. Hook it up to an amplifier? Nope. I made contacts with it and performed a power output test (and took pictures), and tested receive on various bands.

If you want a guarantee, go buy new. If you want perfection, go buy new. That's the only place you're going to find it. I hate to sound like a grumpy Gus, but it's just like a used car. It works as well as it does, but probably not as well as it did new. But it's cheaper than new. It may not run next week, since it's used. If that risk bothers you... buy new.

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Post by N6ATF » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:37 am

What really ticks me off is when eBay sellers put in readable font in the main body of the ad that the item works perfectly fine, but then in "Seller's payment instructions" or at the bottom of the ad, they put in 8 point font 'as-is'.

As if that will let them get away with lying about the item working perfectly fine.

Thank the gods for exclusion searching.
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Post by N4KDF » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:49 pm

Was just reading the posts and came across this one.

I have sold a few items on Ebay, not Amateur related, but electronics just the same. In my case they were a couple of older PC motherboards and they did indeed work; I took them out of a working system when I upgraded.

I knew they worked, assigned a reasonable price, and sold them. I did mention that they were not going to be DOA but also sold them 'As-Is' since I wanted them gone for good and did not want to mess with having somebody fry them when they installed the motherboard in their system and then come back to me saying that I sold a defective product.

CYA? I suppose so but I fear there are buyers who would try to get their funds back after they caused damage to the item sold.

Ahhh.....if there were still a Hamfest local to me I'd not have to worry about such things....face to face...shake of the hand...


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Does what is said in the ad really matter?

Post by K4ICL » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:20 pm

Does it really matter what is said in the ad.? Isn't the ad is just the attention getter? So, as potential buyers or traders of the item isn't it up to us to ask the correct questions -- especially questions that cover what is NOT said in the ad.

If we ask the right questions and get truthful answers, isn't it more likely to be a win-win deal?

If we ask the right questions and get partial answers, or no answers at all, isn't it time to walk away?

Looks to me like if we make the deal without asking the right questions we are shooting ourselves in the foot. The problem will have been our fault, not the ad writer's fault.


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Re: Not DOA However As With All Electronics This Is "AS

Post by n7anl » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:38 am

I would state that what I've been calling "Ebay Only" type ads should be banned from all the ham swap pages, including this one.

If an ad here on QTH is essentially an EBAY ad, (which means it is really ONLY a referral to a link to an Ebay ad, AND it does NOT OFFER the radio or item HERE on QTH (or the other ham swap pages), it should be deleted by the monitors.

I have no problem if someone wants to advertise their goods on Ebay. But to USE these free ham swap pages for "free advertising their Ebay ad" while NOT ALSO allowing the item to sell RIGHT HERE & NOW to a QTH buyer, their ad should be deleted, and a little explanation can be sent to the ad poster.

SO, for an ad to be posted here on QTH, which is also officially posted on Ebay, and this QTH ad has an Ebay link in it -- this QTH ad it should ALSO have in the QTH ad:
~ a fixed price, or a "best offer" price range, (ie: NO auction bidding here on QTH)
~ a decent description of the item,
~ state its operational & appearance conditions,
~ and give the seller's contact information, a phone number or an email address, callsign, etc.
~ state the item is available HERE on QTH without going through the Ebay system.

THESE are the basic needs of every QTH ad. Why should someone's QTH ad be allowed, if in reality it is simply an "Ebay only ad" -- that has equipment ONLY available somewhere else?

I say, "if you post it here, it should be available here" -- without having to go to Ebay to make the deal, OR even to look at the item.
Last edited by n7anl on Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Not DOA However As With All Electronics This Is "AS

Post by n7anl » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:42 am

w8jn wrote:Have you ever seen anything as stupid as the above title? Someone lists something as "Guaranteed not DOA, however as with all Items like this it is sold "AS IS". ...Caveat Emptor 73 Paul W8jn
I have numerous opinions on this!! :lol:

(1) If it looks like an Ebay ad, and if it smells like an ebay ad, well then it's ... ... :?:

(2) It's not DOA if you open the box and plug it in, and the little "power ON" L.E.D. lights up red, "he's good !" (meaning his tail-end is covered).

(3) What gets me the most is the "doublespeak" of the seller who posts these kind of ads (EVERYWHERE across ebay & sometimes on the ham swap pages). Like you are saying 'JN', its "crisscrossed logic".

(I don't mind if a person doesn't want to obligate themselves for "every little thing that could go wrong with a radio they just sold you -- but ON THAT BASIS, their price should NOT be the highest price in the bunch.)

In the final review however, sellers should be willing to take "some" responsibility if they want a "reasonable" price for their item.

And if a seller is NOT WILLING to accept "some" responsibility, then that can be okay too -- BUT we ALL will now EXPECT it to be "a YARD SALE" -- and yard sale prices apply for those kind of deals.

BUYERS: Do your part.
If a seller is disqualifying him/herself from ALL responsibilities, by stating in their ad, (and my personal favorite "stupid" statement):
~ "as with all electronic gadgets, this item is sold as-is with no warranty, no refunds, no returns" -- then YOU should challenge them on their price. It SHOULD be at a yard sale price. And tell them so, politely.

Besides, no self-respecting ham should call their $1000 radio an electronic "gadget". That's just wrong!

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