Prices! RF Exposure Induced?

This is the place to discuss the QTH.com Classifieds (http://swap.qth.com). Please be constructive.
cosmotrkr
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:18 pm

Prices! RF Exposure Induced?

Post by cosmotrkr » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Well its time to step on some toes. I have been trying to keep my fingers quiet for some time now, but I can't control myself any longer. What is the deal with the majority of the used items on this site being near or over todays prices. I think a few to many people who post things on this site have exceeded their maximum RF exposure limits, FT-100's for sale that are more expensive then the new FT-857D's, 10 year old radios for todays prices, and in general a lack of depreciation across the board. When something is purchased new and then opened and plugged in it is USED! I don't care if you wrapped it in cloth and slept with it every night, in a clean room, kept the boxes, manuals, mic's, it is used and therefore you need to sell it at a used price. and for something that is 5 years or older a used price isn't $20-$100 off. I can understand trying to get every penny out of your gear, but this is ridiculous. Go ahead take a look, or you are probably already aware of this as it is impossible to look through one page of adds without seeing the overpriced items. I like being a ham for many different reasons, and one of them is helping others out, especially new hams, but with the prospect of picking something up used as a first rig you are better off buying a new IC-718 for $550 than a used 20+ year old Yaesu FT-101's for $300 plus and thats what I tell my new ham friends. I realize that there are a lot of things listed on this site for very fair prices and lots of good deals to be had, but its the the ridiculously over priced USED items that get under my skin. I understand that you can ask any price for your property but seriously try (thats right try) to price your stuff reasonably. Mint, Like-New, Non-Smoker, 10/10, Works Great, and my favorite "turned it on to test then packaged it up", this is all used car salesman speak and generally garbage. Lets all be honest to ourselves and others an price fairly. This is just my 2 cents, and I will continue to use QTH's Classifieds but lets try as a group to stop the fleecing of the ham community by a few greedy people!

73,
Jack

n9vao
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by n9vao » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:52 pm

All I can say is, if you don't like the price, don't buy it! Not everything in this world is going to be priced at what you will pay. I do know that there is equipment that is no longer made that is in high demand and people will pay a price that is more then when it was new.
I see things all the time that are listed here and on other sites that is priced high and just think to myself good luck on getting that and then go on my way.
If I don't like the price, I don't buy it.
I find it hard to understand why this bothers you. What are they doing to you when their radio is for sale at a price you think is too high.

K4ICL
Posts: 663
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Location: Greenville, SC
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Let's examine this...

Post by K4ICL » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:35 pm

Hmmm.

Let’s see. A Yaesu FT-101 for $300.

That’s $300 divided by $3.99 = about 75 Big Mac hamburgers in today’s dollars.

Same $300 at about the 1960 price of a Big Mac = $300 divided by $1.29 = 232 Big Mac hamburgers in “yesterday’s” dollars.

That’s 157 hamburgers I don’t get to eat because I have to pay in today’s dollars.

Maybe, the price of gear isn't really too high.

What’s worse is the same kind of loss holds true for Brownies and Chocolate chip cookies too!

Whimper…

K4ICL

cosmotrkr
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:18 pm

huh?

Post by cosmotrkr » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:43 am

WA?

n9vao
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by n9vao » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:02 am

OK I get it now, sorry I'm wrong.
I know a guy that bought a '56 Chevy five years ago for $1000. He completely restored it to original, looks like it just came off the line. He has it for sale for $15,000 oh boy, thats more then it was in 1956, I better tell him he will not get that.
My father bought a piece land and had a house built on it 40 years ago for a grand total of $9,500. He sold it 30 years later for $275,000. Boy did he find a sucker.

KC0UKR
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Missouri

Post by KC0UKR » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:44 pm

I agree with the original post mostly.
I can not imagine why some people think the old junk is somehow worth what they ask.
I also know that these radios are worth whatever some poor guy is willing to pay whether it makes sense to me or not.

What does really get me though is the prices some here ask for items that are current and can be purchased brand new for less.
How can anyone ask for more money than a new one in a box with a warranty?!?!?!?!?

If you have a radio and use it....it is not new! Why is this hard to comprehend? Manufacturers who get returned items for whatever reason must re-sell them as used or denote in some way that they are not new,how are we any different? Also does the ownership by some hams somehow enhance the value of this used item?

Does the fact that most warranty's are no good beyond the original purchaser somehow add value?

Is the fact that you can not figure out how to remove the plastic from the display cause for some premium price as though you stupidity is worth paying for?
Have you ever noticed how the plastic seems like a magnet for the display?

Anyway, I see these listings all the time and wonder who would buy these items.Maybe they are just not capable of checking prices themselves.

I also wonder who would buy a few year old 2 meter rig for the price of a new one?
I have owned a lot of new and slightly older rigs and in this class of rigs the older ones are rarely as good as the newer ones and certainly they are not new and should not get new radio pricing.

If you think the pricing is crazy then do what I do and wait until you find one that is not.
As long as someone will throw the money someone will ask for it.

I think the same people that think the 2 percent discout offered at hamfests is a great deal must buy these.

I received a flyer from a Ham dealer over the holidays touting the "Special" savings for Christmas and noticed that the prices were just full retail.
They must think we are morons and some of us must be.

I realize that the hobby needs people to buy and sell radios to keep going but why insult each other by pretending that these radios have some value beyond the utility they offer.
Of course there are rigs that are somewhat rare and collectable but I can not see how an Icom 229 is one of them for instance and why that peice of junk would be worth what a new 2100H is.

Examples of this are everywhere and only make me want to participate less not more.

Thanks for listening

Ed

cosmotrkr
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:18 pm

finally

Post by cosmotrkr » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:48 pm

Finally someone who gets it...... Now back to trying to figure out the hamburger analogy? Hi Hi

73,

n1tko
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:51 am

rIGHT ON

Post by n1tko » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:56 am

Jack - I also agree with you 100%. This isn't EBay. I don't go back as far as a lot of guys. I've been a ham for 30 years. I can remember when I first started there were guys in my area lined up to "Give" you something or sell it to you just to keep you honest.
I have also looked at "some" of the prices for equipment and it’s the same guys who buy up all they can find from good hams giving them a fair deal, then they come on here and make their profit. I know some of the guys do it to make a buck or two to make ends meet, but some prices are ridiculous.
I like to be kissed when I'm getting screwed...... I say keep your reselling at inflated prices on EBay where people don't mind getting shafted.
:oops:

W5DFD
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:54 pm

Post by W5DFD » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:00 pm

cosmotrkr, you got it right. You don't pay today's prices for yesterday's technology.

N1ESE
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Location: Manchester, NH

Post by N1ESE » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:29 pm

I agree with the OP.

What really burns my cookies is when sellers do not check new prices before posting a current model for sale. This is especially true when the manufacturers are running a sale. Last month, I came across a post for a lightly used TS-480HX for $1149. At the time, Kenwood had, and still does til the end of the month, a $180 instant coupon which brings the new cost of the rig to $1069. Why on earth would one buy a used rig for more than you can get it for new with warranty?

Also, a rig is used as soon as you walk out the door with it from the dealer. If it is in your hands, do not advertise it as NEW.

Edit: Just seen on QRZ - Icom V82 for $100 - new price is $119.95

Craziness!

- JT

N9LCD
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:32 pm

Not RF induced...

Post by N9LCD » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:02 pm

IMHO, the prices in question aren't induced by RF, they're induced by PURE GREED or the "Cover My Butt" syndrome when somebody wants to recover what they see as a "mistake".

You can ask any price for anything. Unless you believe in P. T. Barnum, you may not get it.

As for ridiculously high prices being the sole province of eBay, they've now invaded the fests. At one '06 fest, a vendor was asking $125.00 for a blue glass Arcturus 127. That's more than a the same NIB 127 would NORMALLY sell for on eBay!

Sometimes I get the feeling that there's a whole lot of sellers who think that amateurs are nothing but a bunch of pigeons waiting to be plucked!

Jerry

N9LCD


:roll:

KE5EKO
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:20 pm

You gotta be kiddin' with these prices

Post by KE5EKO » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:27 pm

I just saw a couple of Yaesu FT 2800 radios for sale. One was $125 and the other was $175..I just visited the website of R & L Electronics and they have that same radio , brand new, for $117.95..
Is someone trying to screw the "Newbie" or are these people serious??
I have a Kenwood TS-140 thats been in the garage for years and is probably all rusted and moldy...Maybe I could sell it for a $1000 or two..What do you think ??

K4ICL
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Location: Greenville, SC
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There are at least two kinds of prices...

Post by K4ICL » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:56 am

The prices most often seen in the ads are the HOPE-TO-GET prices. By their nature, they are rarely ever realized but hope is eternal, it seems.

Occasionally, prices are posted by users who has done the homework and ascertained what their stuff is selling for in various markets (Internet classified sites, eBay, reviews, vendors, etc.) These are called REALISTIC prices.

See a lot of the former and not so much of the latter.

Cheers,

K4ICL

kb9wzj
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:20 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Not RF induced...

Post by kb9wzj » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:43 pm

N9LCD wrote:IMHO, the prices in question aren't induced by RF, they're induced by PURE GREED or the "Cover My Butt" syndrome when somebody wants to recover what they see as a "mistake".

You can ask any price for anything. Unless you believe in P. T. Barnum, you may not get it.

As for ridiculously high prices being the sole province of eBay, they've now invaded the fests. At one '06 fest, a vendor was asking $125.00 for a blue glass Arcturus 127. That's more than a the same NIB 127 would NORMALLY sell for on eBay!

Sometimes I get the feeling that there's a whole lot of sellers who think that amateurs are nothing but a bunch of pigeons waiting to be plucked!

Jerry

N9LCD


:roll:

Jerry,
Those are the "professional sellers" I speak so lowly about. I only sell to get something off my desk, these guys are trying (or succeeding) to make a living off of used equipment. Back in my old swap meet auto parts days, I finally quit buying and sold some stuff I didn't need. Low and behold, all the professional sellers came out of the wood work and cleaned me out of all the good stuff. I sold all that in the first hour, half of which was BEFORE the damned place opened.
So later that day, I walked the aisles to see what was there, sure enough, all my stuff, some with DOUBLE prices was laying out for sale. I only priced it to move it, I could have asked more if I wanted to sit in a cold building all day and possibly have to take it home.
I do not know who to sell to anymore. Newbies don't get it, long time hams don't need it, I won't ship it to Belize, and I avoid like the plague - "professional sellers" (you know who you are). I also don't even look at ads that are from "estate sales" as they never really "test" the equipment. " I'm not a HAM, so I can't test it".
What really gets me, is when there is a new in the box piece, some dude wants to give you 99% of the price and haggle on shipping. If you are all that uncertain of an items originality or origin, WHY NOT JUST BUY NEW? I really only look at towers and antennas because they can be repaired easily and don't have circuits that some dimbulb could have "tweaked".
I can never find a supposed "minty" piece, all I find are POSs for 90% of new prices. That's why I prefer to buy new, that way I don't get "ripped off".
As for prices, :lol: some people are seriously stoned if they think some one is really going to pay more than what the item is NEW at a dealer. Send those people to "Flea Bay".

kc6vlg
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:09 pm

Where's the beef?

Post by kc6vlg » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:32 am

As for ridiculously high prices being the sole province of eBay, they've now invaded the fests. At one '06 fest, a vendor was asking $125.00 for a blue glass Arcturus 127. That's more than a the same NIB 127 would NORMALLY sell for on eBay!
What's "Arcturus 127"? Sounds like some kind of desease :lol: As for the real topic:
I don't see any reason why anyone should get upset over some guy's overpriced junk. If you don't agree than don't respond. Some people are attached to their gears and when they sell they tend to price the item based upon there own sentimental value rather than the utility value. This is human nature. Man....I'm glad you didn't see my ad for a TS430 that sold for $800.

About the professional seller thing........ Many HAMS (myself included) finance their hobby with profit made from buying and selling/trading gears. So tell me.... what's wrong with that? Selling and trading is also a hobby of mine. IMHO buying and selling is an artform practice by many. Some used the proceeds to survive, me.... I used it to buy more junk.

Next time when you see an over priced item list here, do move on to some cheaper junks and let me apply my craft to haggle with the guy. :lol:

BTW...... the $800 TS430 is just a joke to raise your blood pressure. :wink:

N8PQB
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:21 pm
Location: Springfield, Ohio

Over Priced stuff

Post by N8PQB » Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:40 pm

This is probably unfair to say, but it is my opinion, which by the nature of being an American Citizen, I am untitled to.......
I generally don't do business with anyone from California, Texas, Florida, and a couple of States north of Florida. Seems most of the "dealers" reside in those places.
I would rather deal with the "average ham" from the midwest states. Since I never got bit by the HF bug, I eliminate having to read 87% of the ads on any of the ham sites.
When I discount the 3% of guys trying to sell 20 year old radios for near current prices, and the 2% of the folks that are not hams, I can peruse through the remaining 8% of interesting postings in a minimal amount of time.

kc6vlg
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:09 pm

To deal or not to deal

Post by kc6vlg » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:38 pm

Since I never got bit by the HF bug, I eliminate having to read 87% of the ads on any of the ham sites.
And you missed about 87% worth of our hobby by not getting on HF.

I generally don't do business with anyone from California, Texas, Florida, and a couple of States north of Florida. Seems most of the "dealers" reside in those places.
I don't get it.... Why do you a problem with dealing with ...."dealers"... I think it is safer to deal with guys who want to be around to deal some more vs. some "one shot one sale" HAM who can careless about his/her reputation.

There is no book or rule that defines "fair price".... it is all up to the parties involved. You can always haggle to put the "fair price" within reason betwenn the buyer and seller. That is when you have a "good deal" and if not then just walk away...there is no reason why you should get angry over it. Perhaps your definition of "fair price" is giving it away and blame the dealers for not doing so. :wink:
73 de af6bj (formerly kc6vlg)...a seller from California. -.- oh...that's your turn to talk in CW...a HF lingo :lol:

N8PQB
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:21 pm
Location: Springfield, Ohio

kc6vlg

Post by N8PQB » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:23 pm

And kc6vlg has just given a better example than I could have written, why HF is no interest to me.

w2rdt
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:16 am
Location: Kennedy NY

Re: huh?

Post by w2rdt » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:01 am

cosmotrkr wrote:WA?
I have read these posts re: cosmotrkr and Jerry-N1TKO
You both seem to be of the same class of people. Jerry you said
you"liked to be kissed before you get screwed".
I remember a deal, where you committed to a trade for a
Yeasu 101E, REMEMBER? You were supposed to be moving,
but you decided you wanted to trade the 101e for my Tektronix scope.
several e-mails back and forth. good communications.
We agreed on the units being shipped on the friday of the week we
traded. You stated==I will ship and send you a tracking number and I
agreed to do the same. Friday came and I held back sending you the scope.
I had something tell me, self you need to back up a step and see if
selfs gut feeling is right. Good thing I listened to SELF. If I had shipped
the scope like we agreed, I would have lost my scope, you in my opinion
had no intent on shipping your radio. The point I am making is, you come
on like a very honest and reputable person, when in fact, I got one excuse
after the other why you couldnt ship the scope==You had to get boxes to ship
the radio==You were short on cash and needed a couple of weeks to
send radio==I even agreed to pay your postage for you. NADA
You reniged on a confirmed deal. So where does that put your credence
to post anything negative about anything.
Cosmotrkr You must have come off a bad run, Your comments are
Bull o The Woods style and for the most part uncalled for.
I have found over the years if you don't like what you hear turn off you
Radio, if you don't like what you see, ignore it.
To get on a Ham Site and denounce everything you read is a little
or a lot childish.
Both of you need to look at yourselves and think before you speak.
Ill bet you are one of the PROFFESIONAL DRIVERS, Who push their
rigs ahead of everyone one else and bully the 4 wheelers.
Just my 2 cents worth
Russ"bubba"==KC2RKO
Wheres your call sign BTW

kc4wms
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Re: Let's examine this...

Post by kc4wms » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:40 am

K4ICL wrote:Hmmm.

Let’s see. A Yaesu FT-101 for $300.

That’s $300 divided by $3.99 = about 75 Big Mac hamburgers in today’s dollars.

Same $300 at about the 1960 price of a Big Mac = $300 divided by $1.29 = 232 Big Mac hamburgers in “yesterday’s” dollars.

That’s 157 hamburgers I don’t get to eat because I have to pay in today’s dollars.

Maybe, the price of gear isn't really too high.

What’s worse is the same kind of loss holds true for Brownies and Chocolate chip cookies too!

Whimper…

K4ICL
in 1960 a burger was 100% BEEF not the filler you get in today's McDeath Burgers. Older rigs are a dime a dozen because they are obsolete collectors items. that's why the average new hf rig is well over $1200.00 usd.and the average FT101 is around $200. Like the saying goes, you pay your price and make your choice, no one forces you to pay $300+ for an inferior piece of electronics.

73 om
Ham Operators do it with Frequency

W1LDR
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:48 pm

Post by W1LDR » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:30 am

Good greif,most of what I see here is greed greed and more greed lets defend our greed.Five years ago I bought an Icom 735 for $200 in very good cond.
I had to sell it a couple months later,sold for $150. Haven't seen one since
for less than $400 crazy.Saw one somewhere the other day with faded spots,
scratches and missing the plastic door (which he thought was normal)for
are you ready for this,you better be sitting $600.00 Thats no joke it was there in print.You laughed to I'm sure if you seen it.Oh well we all have complaints,
wether it's the high prices, or the defending of such.You can please some of
the people some of the time but not all the people all the time.
Ok that's my one cent of wonder 73s! :roll: :shock:

N1QOQ
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:28 am
Location: Palmer MA

Re: Let's examine this...

Post by N1QOQ » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:25 am

K4ICL wrote:Hmmm.

Let’s see. A Yaesu FT-101 for $300.

That’s $300 divided by $3.99 = about 75 Big Mac hamburgers in today’s dollars.

Same $300 at about the 1960 price of a Big Mac = $300 divided by $1.29 = 232 Big Mac hamburgers in “yesterday’s” dollars.

That’s 157 hamburgers I don’t get to eat because I have to pay in today’s dollars.

Maybe, the price of gear isn't really too high.

What’s worse is the same kind of loss holds true for Brownies and Chocolate chip cookies too!

Whimper…

K4ICL


Can I have my paycheck in 1966 dollars please??

Give me a break.....

73 Paul

lhk0pd
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Location: dodge city kansas
Contact:

Post by lhk0pd » Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:54 pm

I have bought a few radios and sold a few to help pay for my next radio to play with.When pricing a radio i compare all conditions of the item the best one can with out seeing it and then take prices asked into consideration. But i'm puzzled why all the complaining what some one is selling a item for,i thought this was America the land of free enterprise where one is allowed to stand or fall on there own merits but it is beginning to look like were a land of whiners.I always thought demand set most prices but maybe we need a big brother to step in now and regulate what we should earn and pay for things.I recognize one's freedom of speech and freedom to complain but unless one has no other choice it still falls upon our selves to decide whether a asking price is to much.I expect few to agree with my point of view but then i never was one to hang with the crowd.Oh as for the statement that mcDonalds Hamburger now is filler added,sorry pal but it was yesteryear that was the case todays burgers there are 100% beef and no i own no shares nor work for them but know what is required into days highly competitive fast food mkt along with truth in advertising laws..
Larry Huff K0pd

N9LCD
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:32 pm

Post by N9LCD » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:29 pm

I DO NOT condone lying, fraud or misrepresentation.

However, there is NO remedy for stupidity,laziness and culpability. If a newbie or anybody else is dumb enough to pay more than "new" for an honestly represented used rig, it's SOLELY through their fault. Nobody is holding a gun to their head and saying "BUY"!

And if anyone thinks stupidity, laziness and culpability are confined to hams, just look at Madoff's $50 billion Ponzi scheme!

JERRY

N9LCD

HF130
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:13 am

Post by HF130 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:25 am

Don't mean to offend anyone, but the ham radio hobby reminds me much of when I was trap shooting years ago. Those involved in Trap/Skeet shooting were all retired guys with plenty of money. They were constantly buying guns, selling guns and frankly, money was no big deal. Same with the ham radio hobby...if some retired guy see's an old boat anchor to relive the old days or even a 80's-90's era radio and he wants it, he'll buy it no matter of price. Sellers have figured this all out. I see a lot of talk on various forums about hams being cheap but in real life, I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing guys drop big bucks on radios, antennas, amps, toys, toys, toys. Sellers would not be asking these prices if they were not getting it.

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