What happened to integrity????

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n5qmg
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:47 pm
Location: Houston

What happened to integrity????

Post by n5qmg » Sun May 29, 2011 11:06 pm

Twice now I have tried to purchase something thru the QTH classifieds and each time the person has PROMISED to sell something and then backed out because it was sold to someone else. I tried to mangle/delete the seller's call sign and e-mail. Tell me what you think. Is this a fair way to conduct business? Is this the QTH way? I ask because it's happened twice here recently. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I don't make promises I don't intend to keep.

Judge for yourself and tell me if I'm the one that's wrong here. Read from the bottom up. My first message to the seller was precisely this:
"I'll take it if you still have it."

n5qmg


-----Original Message-----
From: Seller [mailto:seller@xxx.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 5:17 PM
To: Michael Brown
Subject: Re: IC-7000

Hello,

Yes. The buyer sent me what I was asking to my email address using Paypal (a persons email address is the method for payment using Paypal). I am very sorry. Had you been a few minutes quicker, the rig would have been yours. When you asked questions about the item, to me, it seemed as though you had not yet decided to make the purchase. An item is always for sale until the seller has cash in his pocket (in this case Paypal).

It has been my experience that the first to make payment generally gets the item.

Again, many apologies Michael. I aim to be an honest seller and am sorry that you might feel otherwise.

Seller,



On May 29, 2011, at 3:03 PM, "Michael Brown" <n5qmg> wrote:

> Oh come on now Seller,
>
> Someone sent the money to your paypal account??? I didn't even see your
> account listed in the message. Where is the "honest seller" spoken of in
> the feedback section?
>
> Sorry (not really) if I sound mad, but this is twice now that somebody has
> pulled this stuff with me on QTH. Promising to sell something then backing
> out. In the future, please don't say things you don't mean.
>
> michael brown
> n5qmg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Seller[mailto:seller@xxx.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 4:56 PM
> To: Michael Brown
> Subject: Re: IC-7000
>
> Sorry. Someone sent the payment to my paypal account immediately.
>
> Many apologies,
>
> Seller
>
>
>
> On May 29, 2011, at 2:54 PM, "Michael Brown" <n5qmg> wrote:
>
>> Sold? What happened to, "it's yours if you want it"?
>>
>> michael brown
>> n5qmg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Seller[mailto:seller@xxx.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 4:46 PM
>> To: Michael Brown
>> Subject: Re: IC-7000
>>
>> Sorry! Just sold.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Seller
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2011, at 2:20 PM, "Michael Brown" <n5qmg> wrote:
>>
>>> Cool, I do have some questions though about the remote cable. Is it
>> sturdy
>>> enough to stay connected in a mobile? Which end is damaged, the radio
> end
>>> or the head end? Is the screw something findable, or is it something
>> really
>>> odd?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> michael brown
>>> n5qmg
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Seller [mailto:seller@xxx.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 4:14 PM
>>> To: n5qmg@xxx.net
>>> Subject: IC-7000
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Still have the IC-7000. It is yours if you want it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Seller
>>>
>>
>

K9XR
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Re: What happened to integrity????

Post by K9XR » Mon May 30, 2011 6:44 am

I think the seller is right in this case. I sounded as if you were not sure if you wanted it or not. If you were sure you wanted it you should have paid and then ask any questions about the item. When buyers ask questions, I figure thay are not sure either.





When you asked questions about the item, to me, it seemed as though you had not yet decided to make the purchase. An item is always for sale until the seller has cash in his pocket (in this case

It has been my experience that the first to make payment generally gets the item.

n5qmg
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:47 pm
Location: Houston

Post by n5qmg » Mon May 30, 2011 8:15 am

So even though my first message was a firm "I'll take it", that's not firm enough because I asked questions in a subsequent message? And even though the seller didn't respond to the questions, he just sold it to someone else you think this is also right? The entire timeline plays out in 46 minutes and goes like this:
1) I send e-mail at approx 4:00pm local while add is still top of list saying "I'll take it"
2) I get response from seller at 4:14 saying "It's yours if you want it"
3) I reply at 4:19 with my questions and wait for further instructions
4) At 4:46 seller sends reply telling me "sorry, it just sold"

You really think that's how you'd like to be treated? You consider that fair? Do you often pay for things before being asked and without being provided a specific e-mail address to paypal to?

The seller never once asked me for payment before selling it. I didn't put any qualifications on the questions, I just wanted to determine if I should be looking for another cable also; I already said that I would take it, unconditionally, in my first message.

kw3u
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:37 pm
Location: Matamoras pa

Post by kw3u » Mon May 30, 2011 3:14 pm

I agree with the seller who was nice enough to let you know,
some sellers will just delete messages after selling.
"Seller: "it is yours if you want it"

"buyer: "Cool, I have questions"
If I am selling, I would not consider your last response a "yes I will take it"
someone else obviously did and asked if paypal was OK.

Sorry you lost out but consider the sellers here that deal with
the "tire kickers" that keeping sending questions and never commit.

anyway, you will see another deal QTH.com is the place to find it.
Jim
Jim kw3u

KA2CDT
Posts: 163
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Location: Marco Island,Florida
Contact:

Post by KA2CDT » Mon May 30, 2011 3:45 pm

I have to agree with the "buyer" on this one. If the seller was serious when he said "It is yours if you want it" he should of then kept his word. For him to come back and say sorry the radio just sold tells me he was not sincere. Look at the time line between emails. There would of been nothing wrong with the seller answering a few questions to the "buyer" before the payment was sent. Send payment and then ask questions? Are you kidding me?
Oldschool-Hams Helping Hams
73
Ronald G. DeAngelis KA2CDT
Marco Island,Florida 34145
25.95°N 81.72°W
www.KA2CDT.com

K9XR
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Post by K9XR » Mon May 30, 2011 4:14 pm

So you're telling me no matter what the answers were to those questions were, the "prospective buyer" would have bought it anyway? It sounds more like "I'm not sure I want it" to me. If you are SURE you want it, You Pay, otherwise you take your chances. " I want it, but" is not a firm commitment in my eyes.

I would also like to see the "prospective buyer's" original email. Did he say "I will Take it" or did he say I I will buy it after you answer my questions? Maybe he had reason to believe the prospective was not sincere and was just "tire kicking". It happens all the time.






KA2CDT wrote:I have to agree with the "buyer" on this one. If the seller was serious when he said "It is yours if you want it" he should of then kept his word. For him to come back and say sorry the radio just sold tells me he was not sincere. Look at the time line between emails. There would of been nothing wrong with the seller answering a few questions to the "buyer" before the payment was sent. Send payment and then ask questions? Are you kidding me?

n5qmg
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:47 pm
Location: Houston

Post by n5qmg » Mon May 30, 2011 4:18 pm

K9XR wrote:So you're telling me no matter what the answers were to those questions were, the "prospective buyer" would have bought it anyway? It sounds more like "I'm not sure I want it" to me. If you are SURE you want it, You Pay, otherwise you take your chances. " I want it, but" is not a firm commitment in my eyes.

I would also like to see the "prospective buyer's" original email. Did he say "I will Take it" or did he say I I will buy it after you answer my questions? Maybe he had reason to believe the prospective was not sincere and was just "tire kicking". It happens all the time.
Here you go.
The response is from:

Name: michael brown
Callsign: N5QMG
E-mail: n5qmg@xxx.net

The response is:

I'll take it if you still have it.

--------------------------------------------------------
For your reference, here is a copy of the ad you are responding to:

Listing Number: 914758


Nope, I sure don't see a "but" anywhere in that. Do you?

K9XR
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Then You should have asked how he wanted payment.

Post by K9XR » Mon May 30, 2011 4:29 pm

I didn't see where you asked about payment. Why?

The "but" came in when you wanted to ask questions. Either you want it or you don't. The only question you should have asked was "how do I pay". Or in my eyes, You were not sure you wanted it.

I also just noticed that you said: I do have some questions "though".
That sure sounds conditional to me. It still sounds like I think I want it, BUT.
n5qmg wrote:
K9XR wrote:So you're telling me no matter what the answers were to those questions were, the "prospective buyer" would have bought it anyway? It sounds more like "I'm not sure I want it" to me. If you are SURE you want it, You Pay, otherwise you take your chances. " I want it, but" is not a firm commitment in my eyes.

I would also like to see the "prospective buyer's" original email. Did he say "I will Take it" or did he say I I will buy it after you answer my questions? Maybe he had reason to believe the prospective was not sincere and was just "tire kicking". It happens all the time.

Here you go.
The response is from:

Name: michael brown
Callsign: N5QMG
E-mail: n5qmg@xxx.net

The response is:

I'll take it if you still have it.

--------------------------------------------------------
For your reference, here is a copy of the ad you are responding to:

Listing Number: 914758


Nope, I sure don't see a "but" anywhere in that. Do you?


KA2CDT wrote:I have to agree with the "buyer" on this one. If the seller was serious when he said "It is yours if you want it" he should of then kept his word. For him to come back and say sorry the radio just sold tells me he was not sincere. Look at the time line between emails. There would of been nothing wrong with the seller answering a few questions to the "buyer" before the payment was sent. Send payment and then ask questions? Are you kidding me?

KA2CDT
Posts: 163
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Location: Marco Island,Florida
Contact:

Post by KA2CDT » Mon May 30, 2011 4:53 pm

The "buyer" said he wanted it- "I'll take it". The seller decided to sell it to someone else after the "buyer" said he would take it. Is there something wrong with asking a question or two before payment is sent? You say Al to "take your chances". I think the "buyer" works very hard for his money,sorry Al I do not agree with that statement. If a seller does not have the time to answer a few questions I would not consider dealing with him.

Happy Memorial Day!!-Let us not forget.
Oldschool-Hams Helping Hams
73
Ronald G. DeAngelis KA2CDT
Marco Island,Florida 34145
25.95°N 81.72°W
www.KA2CDT.com

K9XR
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Sometimes we learn the hard way.

Post by K9XR » Mon May 30, 2011 5:25 pm

I have had more than one case where I have gotten "I'll take it" turns into "I'll take it if" or "I'll take it but". Then a second prospective buyer comes along and I tell him the item is sold. Then I answer the firt prospective buyer's questions and he decides he doesn't want it after all. Now what?

Try going to Amazon ar any other internet site. Either you buy it or you ask questions, but not both. If it so happens that there is only one item of this type (as is usually the case with ham stuff) if you are asking questions while someone else is paying for it, guess what? You don't get it, the guy who pays for it gets it. I still don't see a thing wrong with that.

I have done quite a bit of buying and selling on this site. I have gotten to the point where I can almost tell a "tire kicker' from their first email. I get emals from some guys asking the same questions, no matter what I list on here. I relly get a kick out of the guts who want pictures and than you never here from them again. Are they collecting pictures of radios or what?

I was selling a Tailtwister Rotor that was brand new. I answered a "wanted" listing froma local (who would have picked it up) who was looking for one. He wanted pictures to "check on the size". Why would you need to check on the size after you put in a "wanted" listing. I had another local request pictures and than he offered me $150 less than I was asking. Believe me I wouldn'y have wasted my time on him had I known he was going yo do that. If you need more examples of tire kickers I will be happy to give you a book about them.

On the other hand there was a W9&& in Ft Wayne who was selling an Icom 746 Pro here and said he would take PayPal.I told him I wanted it if he still had it. He sent me another email telling me he still had it. I had to leave for a couple of hours so I told him: I have to leave. I want the radio. I will pay with PayPal as soon as I get home.What is your patpal ID?

I returned home to an email telling me he sold it. I asked him "what part of I want the radio" didn't he understand. In thet case i was pissed because I made a firm commitment and there were no "ifs or buts" involved. That is a completely different story than this one and of course he never bother to answer my email.

KA2CDT wrote:The "buyer" said he wanted it- "I'll take it". The seller decided to sell it to someone else after the "buyer" said he would take it. Is there something wrong with asking a question or two before payment is sent? You say Al to "take your chances". I think the "buyer" works very hard for his money,sorry Al I do not agree with that statement. If a seller does not have the time to answer a few questions I would not consider dealing with him.

Happy Memorial Day!!-Let us not forget.

n5qmg
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:47 pm
Location: Houston

What does that have to do with anything?

Post by n5qmg » Mon May 30, 2011 6:02 pm

One big long winded straw man argument about something unrelated doesn't change any facts of this situation. I did not qualify the purchase by asking questions about the condition of the cable. Obviously you disagree with that, so don't bother with another diatribe.

You (and the seller) can keep jumping to the erroneous conclusion that I was back-tracking, but that doesn't change the facts either. I wouldn't have said "I'll take it if you still have it" if I meant something else. AFAIC it doesn't matter what your prior experiences with other people is, it doesn't justify not keeping your word in a new business deal. Obviously you disagree with that.

I guess the problem is that I'm old-school and I would expect to have to stick to my word and I would tend to expect others to do so as well. A different generation seems to think that others will lie so it's ok to do the same, first.

I hope anyone "investigating" me (should I offer to buy anything else) will see that I am serious with whatever I said to them and that I will stand behind my word. I also hope that if they don't want to do the same, then they will be up front about it. This way everyone will be happier.

Your word may be all you have some day, shouldn't it be worth something?

EDIT: I've run my own business for more than 10 years. Real deals are sealed long before money changes hands.

EDIT2: I'm sorry if I sound like I'm angry at you. I'm not, but I'm sure angry over the situation. Remember I said this happened twice. The first time didn't even involve any questions, just a simple back out by the seller. I figured once was a fluke, but twice in a short time is just BS. Maybe I should have brought the first incident to trial here, but I didn't. I let it slide.
Last edited by n5qmg on Mon May 30, 2011 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KA2CDT
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Post by KA2CDT » Mon May 30, 2011 6:23 pm

Does Amazon sell used items? I believe that is third party sellers? I do not know I could be wrong about that. Anyway, we are basically dealing in the used market from private sellers here on QTH. To compare it to Amazon..I cannot see the comparison. :?

All the seller had to say to the potential buyer was "Yes it is still for sale but I have one or two other interested parties."

Also to keep it fair I personally take each inquiry in the order received either by email or private message when I list something for sale. If number 2 says 'I will take it" then I will go back to number 1 inquiry to see if he is still interested. If not,I will sell to number 2.

Last year I sold a beautiful TR-7. I had it priced right and received probably 4 or 5 inquiries about it. I did not go by the "whoever sends payment first method". I went by order of inquiry. I did wind up selling the radio to the number 2 inquiry only after confirming that the initial email about purchasing did not want the radio.
Oldschool-Hams Helping Hams
73
Ronald G. DeAngelis KA2CDT
Marco Island,Florida 34145
25.95°N 81.72°W
www.KA2CDT.com

GALAXY67
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Location: AKRON,OHIO

I WANT IT !!

Post by GALAXY67 » Mon May 30, 2011 6:57 pm

THis whole situation is nonsense,do people have nothing better to do than complain about a missed deal?? was this a life threatning episode,was it the last one of its kind?? I have had radios sold out from under me more than once,if I cried about it,my body would have no water left ,if this is the most important thing in a persons life,God Help Us All !! Its comes down to its nothing more than a trivial hobby ....BOB WN8BOB

W8UAB
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Location: Northeast Ohio

Trivial Hobby?

Post by W8UAB » Tue May 31, 2011 2:59 am

Did he just say my life long dream of becoming a Licensed Amateur Radio Operator Extraordinaire was trivial? Gather the villagers and the torches!

K9XR
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Re: What happened to integrity????

Post by K9XR » Tue May 31, 2011 5:46 am

Why do you want us to tell you what we think? If we don't agree with you we are just WRONG. You don't really care what anbody thinks. You just want everybody to agree with you and if we don't, it is a "straw man" argument. I'll bet you are just great with politics also.


n5qmg wrote:Twice now I have tried to purchase something thru the QTH classifieds and each time the person has PROMISED to sell something and then backed out because it was sold to someone else. I tried to mangle/delete the seller's call sign and e-mail. from
thTell me what you think. Is this a fair way to conduct business? Is this the QTH way? I ask because it's happened twice here recently. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I don't make promises I don't intend to keep.

Judge for yourself and tell me if I'm the one that's wrong here.
Read e bottom up. My first message to the seller was precisely this:
"I'll take it if you still have it."

n5qmg


-----Original Message-----
From: Seller [mailto:seller@xxx.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 5:17 PM
To: Michael Brown
Subject: Re: IC-7000

Hello,

Yes. The buyer sent me what I was asking to my email address using Paypal (a persons email address is the method for payment using Paypal). I am very sorry. Had you been a few minutes quicker, the rig would have been yours. When you asked questions about the item, to me, it seemed as though you had not yet decided to make the purchase. An item is always for sale until the seller has cash in his pocket (in this case Paypal).

It has been my experience that the first to make payment generally gets the item.

Again, many apologies Michael. I aim to be an honest seller and am sorry that you might feel otherwise.

Seller,



On May 29, 2011, at 3:03 PM, "Michael Brown" <n5qmg> wrote:

> Oh come on now Seller,
>
> Someone sent the money to your paypal account??? I didn't even see your
> account listed in the message. Where is the "honest seller" spoken of in
> the feedback section?
>
> Sorry (not really) if I sound mad, but this is twice now that somebody has
> pulled this stuff with me on QTH. Promising to sell something then backing
> out. In the future, please don't say things you don't mean.
>
> michael brown
> n5qmg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Seller[mailto:seller@xxx.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 4:56 PM
> To: Michael Brown
> Subject: Re: IC-7000
>
> Sorry. Someone sent the payment to my paypal account immediately.
>
> Many apologies,
>
> Seller
>
>
>
> On May 29, 2011, at 2:54 PM, "Michael Brown" <n5qmg> wrote:
>
>> Sold? What happened to, "it's yours if you want it"?
>>
>> michael brown
>> n5qmg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Seller[mailto:seller@xxx.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 4:46 PM
>> To: Michael Brown
>> Subject: Re: IC-7000
>>
>> Sorry! Just sold.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Seller
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2011, at 2:20 PM, "Michael Brown" <n5qmg> wrote:
>>
>>> Cool, I do have some questions though about the remote cable. Is it
>> sturdy
>>> enough to stay connected in a mobile? Which end is damaged, the radio
> end
>>> or the head end? Is the screw something findable, or is it something
>> really
>>> odd?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> michael brown
>>> n5qmg
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Seller [mailto:seller@xxx.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 4:14 PM
>>> To: n5qmg@xxx.net
>>> Subject: IC-7000
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Still have the IC-7000. It is yours if you want it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Seller
>>>
>>
>

K9XR
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Post by K9XR » Tue May 31, 2011 6:08 am

Yes, Amazon does sell used items, but what difference does that make? The buyer never mentioned a thing about payment options and he had plenty of time to. He says he is "old school" but the seller doen't know he will stand by his commitment.

I tried to explain to him where the buyer was coming from based on my own experience, but he blew off my experiences as a "straw man argument".

Where can you go and have two parties intereested in the same item and not have the one who pays first get the item. I just don't see what is so hard to understand about this. There is NO DEAL UNTIL MONEY IS EXCHANGED.

I also try to be fair, but if the first email asks me some questions and it doesn't appear that he is not really commited, I will sell it to the first person that says "I want it, how do I pay?"


[
quote="KA2CDT"]Does Amazon sell used items? I believe that is third party sellers? I do not know I could be wrong about that. Anyway, we are basically dealing in the used market from private sellers here on QTH. To compare it to Amazon..I cannot see the comparison
. :?

All the seller had to say to the potential buyer was "Yes it is still for sale but I have one or two other interested parties."

Also to keep it fair I personally take each inquiry in the order received either by email or private message when I list something for sale. If number 2 says 'I will take it" then I will go back to number 1 inquiry to see if he is still interested. If not,I will sell to number 2.

Last year I sold a beautiful TR-7. I had it priced right and received probably 4 or 5 inquiries about it. I did not go by the "whoever sends payment first method". I went by order of inquiry. I did wind up selling the radio to the number 2 inquiry only after confirming that the initial email about purchasing did not want the radio.[/quote]

n5qmg
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:47 pm
Location: Houston

Re: What happened to integrity????

Post by n5qmg » Tue May 31, 2011 7:20 am

K9XR wrote:Why do you want us to tell you what we think? If we don't agree with you we are just WRONG. You don't really care what anbody thinks. You just want everybody to agree with you and if we don't, it is a "straw man" argument. I'll bet you are just great with politics also.
PKB

Actually I wanted many opinions, not just yours over and over. I certainly didn't come here to be accused by you of things I never actually said or did. You kept putting words into my mouth that I simply didn't say. Then you built a straw man and burned him down to try to drive the point home that I was some kind of wishy washy tire-kicking buyer because other people did that to you. I came here to debate, not participate in a flame fest. I want to stick to the facts of this situation.

You refuse to believe that I was committed to buying it, even though you have to fabricate the "buts" that were never present in the offer. I said I would take it unconditionally, and showed you all the text. If you don't believe me then you never will. Frankly, I'm getting rather tired of you continuing to make those accusations after being shown the facts.

One last time, deals ARE sealed before money changes hands. If you don't believe that, then you are simply blind to the way things really work in the world. Just look around you, you should spot deals being made all the time without money changing hands. Amazon and e-bay did not invent business practice, you need to broaden your perspective beyond the Internet.

Not big on politics but I know something about contract law. This was a breached contract and nothing less.

K9XR
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

The word though

Post by K9XR » Tue May 31, 2011 7:47 am

Maybe you should look up the word "though". It means to qualify or put restrictions on what was said earlier. Maybe you didn't mean to say "though I do have some questions", but you did and that is why the seller and I both thought it wasn't a solid offer. I didn't put words in your mouth. That is simply what you said, rather you meant it or not.

n5qmg
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:47 pm
Location: Houston

Post by n5qmg » Tue May 31, 2011 8:01 am

:roll: Look up the meaning of though in terms of being used as a conjunction. It doesn't necessarily apply restrictions, it can further support the first term in a "notwithstanding" kind of way. Don't you think you're stretching the issue yet?

EDIT:
For Example:
I'll take it, though I'd like to know more about the condition of the cable. There, that concludes our grammar lesson for today.

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Post by lhk0pd » Tue May 31, 2011 12:05 pm

Twice recently on a Radio i was selling i had two buyers in a row back out at the last instance. The first buyer said i want it and i said OK it is yours. I had a couple of other prospects that i told them the radio was spoken for only to have the Original buyer having to back off with a strong apology which under the circumstances he had was fully understandable.

Fortunately i had another person enquire and stated they wanted the radio if still available in which i did only to have this person back out because of a family issue. The third person bought the radio so i was fortunate that my price was right and the radio was a some what popular radio.

So what i'm saying is i'm taking no sides on this but the plain fact is until they tell you the money is on the way or already in your hands a i want it to me is just words but i still would give them more than a few minutes before selling it to some one else as it would not have been that difficult to have told other interested buyers your waiting to hear back from the original person who said they wanted it. But at the same time i would have thought the buyer in this case before saying i want it should have asked questions he might of had a concern over first before committing. Like i said i'm taking no sides here but at the same time i feel there was a communications break down from both parties that could have been avoided by both seller and buyer.
Larry Huff K0pd

n5qmg
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:47 pm
Location: Houston

Post by n5qmg » Tue May 31, 2011 1:18 pm

Having my own business, I fully understand the drain placed on a seller by tire kickers. Guess what though, that's just the way it is. That's why brick and mortar stores will always exist. However, this in no way relieves the seller of an obligation to be truthful, especially when doing business in writing. These e-mail arrangements are legal contracts, it's not a great sign of intelligence to lie during their creation. KA9FOX already warns folks about slander liabilities, I think he should do the same on this issue about written contracts and the liabilities one can face. Telling the truth up front is simple.

It all comes down to the golden rule in the end. Maybe KA9FOX could come up with a way to classify sellers. We could have vending machine classification where money moves first or nothing does, no questions allowed. We could have the used car group that will tell you anything to get your money. We could have the old-school group that believes in being a person of their word and will do business on a virtual handshake. Then allot of this confusion about what's proper could be eliminated. Of course I wonder how many would truly want to be publicly assigned to their group.

W3WN
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:40 pm

Post by W3WN » Tue May 31, 2011 8:46 pm

Unfortunately, not everyone agrees on what constitutes a binding sales agreement.

I too have had what I thought was an agreement, only to be told otherwise. For example, one person once went so far as to email me as to why I sent him a check for an item; when I sent him back his own emails that agreed to the deal, he informed me that since he didn't mention shipping costs, it wasn't a binding agreement & the item had since been sold to someone else. [And then he had the nerve to complain that I actually wanted my check back, but that's another story] An extreme example, but it does happen.

I've also been at hamfests where I've asked the price of an item I'm holding in my hands, agreed, and someone else has yelled "sold!" or "I'll take it!" and literally grabs it from me and throws money at the seller (or tries to, at least). Some sellers shrug and say "oh well", others tell the other party that since I'd asked first, the item was mine.

Bottom line is that there's not much you can do when the other party has ethical standards that differ from yours. It's not fair, it's not right, but it happens.

localjunkpeddler
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:49 pm
Location: South Florida

Whose Integrity??

Post by localjunkpeddler » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:49 am

Wow,......... let's just cut to the chase: N5QMG has been posting on QTH just barely a month now. He's had his ticket almost a year (up graded to no-code extra a couple of months ago), get the picture??
I get the balls to the wall "buyers" regularly. They burn up band width with countless E-mails with their tirekicking and low ball attempts at completing a deal. Meanwhile their balls seek refuge in their wife's purse.
I don't blame the seller either. He probably did a little checking on the substance of little Mikeys QTH posts, his ham history and such. It all spells out NEWBIE. The seller, like myself , can see that the line of questioning is headed towards a no-sale. Been there done that. The "I'll take it. but.................." deal is a tell tale sign of an attempt to get over on the seller.
When Mr Brown started off whining about another ham's integrity, he forgot a simple thing... like his own...............................my 2 cents worth :shock:
"Always drink upstream of the herd"

n5qmg
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:47 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Whose Integrity??

Post by n5qmg » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:51 am

localjunkpeddler wrote:Wow,......... let's just cut to the chase: N5QMG has been posting on QTH just barely a month now. He's had his ticket almost a year (up graded to no-code extra a couple of months ago), get the picture??
I get the balls to the wall "buyers" regularly. They burn up band width with countless E-mails with their tirekicking and low ball attempts at completing a deal. Meanwhile their balls seek refuge in their wife's purse.
I don't blame the seller either. He probably did a little checking on the substance of little Mikeys QTH posts, his ham history and such. It all spells out NEWBIE. The seller, like myself , can see that the line of questioning is headed towards a no-sale. Been there done that. The "I'll take it. but.................." deal is a tell tale sign of an attempt to get over on the seller.
When Mr Brown started off whining about another ham's integrity, he forgot a simple thing... like his own...............................my 2 cents worth :shock:
Hardly worth the two cents. I've been a know-code ham for more than 20 years. Upgraded to extra more than a year ago. Would you like to apologize now or later? Where is your call sign?

EDIT: After sticking your neck out like that, I really want to see just how much integrity a self-professed junkpeddler has. I really didn't appreciate your commentary, so go ahead and man up and tell us all your call sign and real name now.

localjunkpeddler
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:49 pm
Location: South Florida

Integrity

Post by localjunkpeddler » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:40 am

Man up?? well I suppose............. Being a ticket holder certainly isn't the same as being a HAM. I will apologize for getting your time frame wrong, however. A little research on your part would have led you to find that I'm K4LJP, and I'm quite proud of my reputation on all three of the major Ham classified pages. I received my first radio at the age of eight back in 1952. During my working years I possessed a !st Class GROL and was a Two- way radio professional. Now that I've retired I'm only an amateur.
For nearly 60 years, I've been involved with radio, buying, trading, repairing, and collecting which qualifies me as saying that I've been in the radio rodeo long enough to spot a real Ham.
"Always drink upstream of the herd"

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