KJ4TOF - Ripped me off...

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As of Dec 9, 2013: ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with a transaction can post here. Do not post replies in any topic if you are not the buyer or seller in the transaction being discussed! If you believe you can help the buyer or seller, please use the Private Message system to communicate with them. NOTE: if you have been scammed by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead. See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136 for additional rules.
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

KJ4TOF - Ripped me off...

Post by w0bkr »

Beware (will remove or modify this posting if this individual comes forward and reconciles the issue)

Sold an item to Billy Stone, KJ4TOF and was paid via cashiers check. Cashed it and sent item 3 days later. Now, 2 weeks after the transaction, I have the pleasure to see th funds pulled from my account because according to his bank, he cancelled the check after the fact. Not sure how you can do that with cashiers checks but following up. More to follow I am certain...
WA5JAV
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:27 pm
Location: Louisiana
Contact:

Cashier Check

Post by WA5JAV »

Was the paper a Cashier Check or Bank Money Order? Unless there are illegal intentions, it is my understanding, a Cashier Check can not have payment reversed. However, a Bank Money Order can be reversed.
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Cashiers Check

Post by w0bkr »

as stated, bank cashiers check which to me, cannot be canceled, etc unless it is never cashed and you have the original carbon....he needs to step forward and resolve..kinda hard for me without the original, carbon, etc....I will be following up....I think the whole thing is wierd to me too....but he is the sender, the originator and the buyer...to do the right thing, he needs to step up to the plate and investigate and respond...nothing from him to date...
N9LCD
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:32 pm

CASHIER'S CHECK

Post by N9LCD »

As a former banker, I strongly suspect that KJ4TOF purchased a cashier's check and stopped payment on it before you got it and had a chance to deposit it. The time sequence seems to indicate that. Generally once an item had been paid by the bank that issued it, the issuing bank can not retrieve those funds without legal action.

Usually a bank issuing or selling cashier's checks will require a purchaser to post an indemnity bond before it accepts a "stop payment". That's to protect the bank and the person innocently accepting the cashier's check from fraudulent stop payment orders.

I strongly urge you to contact the issuing/selling bank to demand repayment of the funds in question. If they don't, try filing a suit in your local Small Claims Court. I'm sure you can dredge enough "dirt" to shame the issuer/seller into paying you back.

Concurrently, I urge you to contact the Police in KJ4TOF's home town and file a criminal fraud complaint against him. A uniform on the front porch does wonders in shaping-up characters. Also, a suit in Small Claims Court wouldn't hurt.

BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, GET MOVING. TIME IS RUNNING AND THE TRAIL WILL GET COLD AND EVIDENCE LOST OR MISLAID.

N9LCD

DON'T GET MAD! GET EVEN!

:twisted:
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Posting

Post by w0bkr »

If he decides to do the right thing, everything will be deleted, etc. Otherwise, should remain as an alert to others sellng or buying from him. I found out the hard way.
K9XR
Posts: 449
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Re: Posting

Post by K9XR »

Why in the world would you think it was OK to post this on the DX Cluster, not once, but twice. Boy I would just jump at the chance to make a deal with you. I just love all the drama that goes along with a deal from you. No wonder you've changed your call 12 times.


quote="w0bkr"]If he decides to do the right thing, everything will be deleted, etc. Otherwise, should remain as an alert to others sellng or buying from him. I found out the hard way.[/quote]
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Honest

Post by w0bkr »

If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't have a problem.. ..you have none of the details so please, don't get involved with something you have no knowledge about..this character has no phone number and no e-mail.
Uses QRZ Private Messages to communicate. He has been sent numerous e-mails and is dodging doing the right thing. Bottom, line, from all the info and e-mails he is a crook. Plain and simple. If it were your money, I am certain you would be whining big time. Since it isn't you don't mind throwing stones.

i will do whatever it takes to keep him from ripping off other individuals and retrieving these funds....

Love your drama about Chris Scott N8YHY. So, don't throw your rocks in your glass house...

Recommend not being involved in my issues....CU
Last edited by w0bkr on Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Re: Posting

Post by w0bkr »

w0bkr wrote:If he decides to do the right thing, everything will be deleted, etc. Otherwise, should remain as an alert to others sellng or buying from him. I found out the hard way.
I agree...I contacted him bank and have yet to be given a clear explanation, and I too, was under the impression that cashiers checks, once issued cannot be cancelled unless lost, etc. However, that isn't what they told me.

I suspect fraud all the way. Too many issues with this guy and he dodges messages to reconcile. Well, I won't let up, do what I can to get this worked out. HE has the ultimate responsibility to take the correct action to reconcile. I have little to work with.
K9XR
Posts: 449
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

Re: Honest

Post by K9XR »

First of all, you don't even know me, so don't question my honesty. I sure don't need or want approval from people like you.
That's fine. All you are doing is screwing yourself in the long run. I been in this hobby a long time and I seen a lot of people on the cluster with an axe to grind, but I have never seen it used like you are just to push your agenda. I have read a lot of stuff from you on more than one forum and I can say without a doubt you have more problems per transaction than any ham in the world. If you think it's OK to air your dirty laundry "worldwide" over $85.00, you have a strange way of looking at things and I would never think of buying a thing from you. Just remember, once that message goes out on the cluster, you can't edit it. It seems to me you want to get everybody involved, so don't tell me not to.

Believe me. I have got taken for a heck of a lot more than $85.00 and believe it or not, I didn't put it on the cluster.

The bottom line is this, this crap doesn't belong on the cluster.

Do something constructive like applying for a new call or something like that.


w0bkr wrote:If you were honest, you wouldn't have a problem..would you...you have none of the details so please, don't get involved with something you have no knowledge about..this character has no phone number and no e-mail. Uses QRZ Private Messages to communicate. He has been sent numerous e-mails and is dodging doing the right thing. Bottom, line, from all the info and e-mails he is a crook. Plain and simple. If it were your money, I am certain you would be whining big time. Since it isn't you don't mind throwing stones.

i will do whatever it takes to keep him from ripping off other individuals and retrieving these funds....
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Whatever...

Post by w0bkr »

If you have nothing really constructive to help in this situation, just sit back and read and move on. QTH has plenty of drama queens out there with 2 bit advice and comments that do nothing.

I have been ripped off before. This guy was slick. He stopped payment on the cashiers check before the item arrived so I go screwed. I will use whatever methods to alert anyone to this low life's behavior and do what it takes to get funds or assets back.
KJ4TOF operates out of QRZ.COM, using the Private Message method to bait individuals as he lists no e-mail, no phone number...a realy loser.

If I manage to force his bank to pay up, fine. If not, just take it as an alert, beware of this guy....

I suspect there is more wrong with this individual then just $85. He has had plenty of communication opportunities and ignores them all.

So his actions speak volumes.

If you have useful info, fine, if not, just read and move on to something else to do. End of story.

:P
K9XR
Posts: 449
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:51 pm

????

Post by K9XR »

So how does any of your lame response explain how you are justified posting on the Cluster? There IS NO JUSTIFICATION and you know it. You remind me of a little spoiled xxxx who will do whatever it takes to justify something that just can't be justified. Talk about DRAMA QUEENS, you take the cake!
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Re: CASHIER'S CHECK

Post by w0bkr »

N9LCD wrote:As a former banker, I strongly suspect that KJ4TOF purchased a cashier's check and stopped payment on it before you got it and had a chance to deposit it. The time sequence seems to indicate that. Generally once an item had been paid by the bank that issued it, the issuing bank can not retrieve those funds without legal action.

Usually a bank issuing or selling cashier's checks will require a purchaser to post an indemnity bond before it accepts a "stop payment". That's to protect the bank and the person innocently accepting the cashier's check from fraudulent stop payment orders.

I strongly urge you to contact the issuing/selling bank to demand repayment of the funds in question. If they don't, try filing a suit in your local Small Claims Court. I'm sure you can dredge enough "dirt" to shame the issuer/seller into paying you back.

Concurrently, I urge you to contact the Police in KJ4TOF's home town and file a criminal fraud complaint against him. A uniform on the front porch does wonders in shaping-up characters. Also, a suit in Small Claims Court wouldn't hurt.

BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, GET MOVING. TIME IS RUNNING AND THE TRAIL WILL GET COLD AND EVIDENCE LOST OR MISLAID.

N9LCD

DON'T GET MAD! GET EVEN!

Well, don't know about the get even thing, I just don't want others to fall victim to this thief. I am following up in the best methods I can, via his banks fraud depart and the fact if he did in fact cancel the check after he mailed it, one would think a bank woudl require some time element or period of time before they coughed up the money to reimburse for the "lost or stolen" check.

My bank certainly doesn't do it that way which leads me to believe they were not following procedure either. I have never heard of placing a stop payment or cancellation when you don't have the original and it has been less then 48 hours. The e-mail trail this Lid left reeks of lies, inconsistencies, etc. Who knows if this individual has personality problems or disorders. For this amount of money, I certainly would not do it, let alone for large sums.

Anyway, following up the best that we can. I suspect we won't be seeing this money again. Sad part is, I sold this item to this thief and used the funds to help a friend of mine (disabled) get a two meter radio with some other funds. Now he feels he needs to reimburse me and is really soured with amateur radio ops that do this to other amateurs. I assured him, there are always rotten apples and keep going on to getting his license. I hope he continues. Just sad he had to witness this also.

I feel for those bilked out of 100's and 1000's by scammers that to this day we still see listed on many forums buying and selling along with Escam. Sad but true unfortunately.

Thanks for the useful advice.



:twisted:
kw4h
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:50 am

Post by kw4h »

This thread is a bit confusing, because there's no such thing as a "stop payment" on a bank check. A cashier's check is a direct obligation of the issuing bank and there's no way to "stop payment". This is why bank checks are required for things like real estate closings. In all states except South Carolina, there is a provision in the Uniform Commercial Code that allows the purchaser of a cashier's check to file a claim and affidavit with the issuing bank if the check has been lost, stolen, or destroyed. Then, once the check in question is ninety days old, the issuing bank can honor the claim and thereafter refuse to pay the original check should it show up for payment. But that didn't happen in this case.

If there is any doubt that cashiers checks cannot have a "stop payment" put on them, please google the matter.

The case as it is presented in this thread simply can't happen.
WA5JAV
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:27 pm
Location: Louisiana
Contact:

Bank Check

Post by WA5JAV »

I just noticed in my earlier post where I errored in Cashier Check and Bank Check. What I should have posted was Bank Money Order can be reversed or stop payment. Seems Cashier Check, Bank Check and Official Check are non-reversal, whereas Bank Money Order is.
kw4h
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Bank Check

Post by kw4h »

WA5JAV wrote:I just noticed in my earlier post where I errored in Cashier Check and Bank Check. What I should have posted was Bank Money Order can be reversed or stop payment. Seems Cashier Check, Bank Check and Official Check are non-reversal, whereas Bank Money Order is.
From Bankersonline.com:

A bank money order is signed by the bank and is therefore a direct bank obligation. If the money order is signed by the bank and drawn on the bank, it is the legal equivalent of a cashier's check. If it's signed by the bank, but drawn on an account maintained by the bank at another institution,, it is the legal equivalent of a teller's check.

No stop payment.

73, Steve
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Re: Bank Check

Post by w0bkr »

It is confusing to me too as his bank won't tell me much or my bank either (maybe there is more to this crumb then we know) but they told me it is a cashiers check and he had it canceled.

I too investigated the terminology and found similar remarks. One reason I am sending an investigative letter to that bank to investigate further, either someone there did something they weren't suppose to do for this character or else, there is more then we are being told. I can only report what they have stated, after numerous calls, with numerous individuals. I would be grateful to understand how any of this is achieveable as it didn't work for me that way some years ago when I thought one was lost in the mail.

Facts are, he has done nothing to respond to my requests to reconcile, has not contacted the bank in question, and his responses are more and more bizarre when I read them over and over....

All I can tell anyone, is that bank told me verbally he had the cashier's check cancelled (asked if it were a money order) and that is all they would tell me. In any event, a money order, check, cashier's check, he lied about it all, telling me it was in the mail when all the while, it was no good for the seller to use upon receipt. That is the key issue. I have offered to delete the postings if he correct the situation, but to date, no joy. Just bizarre remarks etc.

So, just beware. Period.

kw4h wrote:
WA5JAV wrote:I just noticed in my earlier post where I errored in Cashier Check and Bank Check. What I should have posted was Bank Money Order can be reversed or stop payment. Seems Cashier Check, Bank Check and Official Check are non-reversal, whereas Bank Money Order is.
From Bankersonline.com:

A bank money order is signed by the bank and is therefore a direct bank obligation. If the money order is signed by the bank and drawn on the bank, it is the legal equivalent of a cashier's check. If it's signed by the bank, but drawn on an account maintained by the bank at another institution,, it is the legal equivalent of a teller's check.

No stop payment.

73, Steve
WA5JAV
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:27 pm
Location: Louisiana
Contact:

Bank Money Order

Post by WA5JAV »

kw4h
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Bank Check

Post by kw4h »

w0bkr wrote:It is confusing to me too as his bank won't tell me much or my bank either (maybe there is more to this crumb then we know) but they told me it is a cashiers check and he had it canceled.
This is VERY bizarre, because a Cashier's Check is a legally binding, "irrevocable promise to pay" by the issuing bank. There are only three reasons why cashier's checks can have a stop-payment on them: if it was lost, if it was stolen, or if you never received it. Under those conditions, I can only think of one way to scam someone by using a cashier's check: to lie and say it was stolen, momentarily fingering YOU as the thief. This may be why the issuing bank is refusing to say much to you. Or maybe I'm reading too much into this. In any event, I would call the issuing bank up again (what is this bank -- "Bubba's Bank and Loan"?) and demand that they make good on their cashier's check, and if they refuse tell them you will file a complaint against them with their state banking regulators, and ask for a full investigation. Remember -- a cashier's check is drawn on the issuing bank, not the individual. The bank has not made good on their promise to pay. Since you're an individual and not a significant operation (such as a real estate settlement company), the bank may feel they can push you aside and, hopefully, you'll go away and this will all be swept under the rug. As the saying goes, "there's something fishy in Denmark". If you haven't already, you might also want to try walking into your bank and ask for their help investigating this.

73, Steve.
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Bizarre Steve

Post by w0bkr »

Yes, Steve it is. I understand C Checks and never, have I ever heard of anyone able to cancel or stop payment until a certain passage or time or with the original which I had. So, I have to assume he pulled some BS lie or something but still, to me, the bank did not follow procedure(s).

I have already filed with the banks (US Navy Fed Credit Union -Merrifield, VA) security fraud division, and even the CEO of the Bank to complain about how this is possible when there are checks and balances in place. Be interesting if they respond.

I also forwarded to the Pensacola internet fraud dept. Be interesting to see when/if they visit his QTH, a $170K home near the golf course..He ain't hurting for money, jut suffers I suspect from personality/behavior disorders.

You should see some of the stuff this clown has posted and sent.

In any event, I suspect he may in the near future since he scammed me, escalate the amount he scams next time.

Wonder what Lee thinks of all this? I certainly wouldn't want to live in a house with such criminal activity....
kw4h
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Bizarre Steve

Post by kw4h »

w0bkr wrote:I have already filed with the banks (US Navy Fed Credit Union -Merrifield, VA)
Small world -- I use Navy Federal exclusively, and have for many years. They're a top-notch credit union, if someone tries to bamboozle them they probably won't take too kindly to it. They also have a very large bureaucracy and it may take time for your inquiry to move through their system. Good luck!!

Steve
KW4H
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Thanks

Post by w0bkr »

Sad indeed but who knows..this individual definitely has problems.....


One thing that has been consistent and that is his inconsistencies in what he tells....

Something of a Red Flag there...

73 GB
Chris
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Criminal

Post by w0bkr »

Paperwork mailed off...I have waited long enough..will see if I can extract justice another way...beware of this criminal posing on QRZ and other sites...
Wouldn't be surprised to see a callsign change in the very near future...
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Ripp Off

Post by w0bkr »

Still waiting TOF...where's the money....one lie after another....you really need some professional help.....
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Re: Bizarre Steve

Post by w0bkr »

kw4h wrote:
w0bkr wrote:I have already filed with the banks (US Navy Fed Credit Union -Merrifield, VA)
Small world -- I use Navy Federal exclusively, and have for many years. They're a top-notch credit union, if someone tries to bamboozle them they probably won't take too kindly to it. They also have a very large bureaucracy and it may take time for your inquiry to move through their system. Good luck!!

Steve
KW4H
I sent the CEO of NFCU a letter also...they need to investigate their banking policies so this loser doesn't continue swindling individuals on other swap sites using their bank...
w0bkr
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Updated Information - Fraud has been confirmed 100%

Post by w0bkr »

Updated info:

I had a friend that works at a bank do some research on this issue for me and here are the facts. You decide for yourself (should be crystal clear):

1. Scammer purchased a cashier's check from NFCU on 7/12.
2. Per NFCU (confirmed today), Scammer KJ4TOF completed affidavit swearing he lost the cashier's check (all in the same time frame).
3. Knowingly sent the bogus unfunded check in the mail so it would appear legit.
4. Received article and Seller finds out 2 weeks later that this Scammer stole the item via Bank Fraud (by lying to the bank - Felony Offense), committed mail fraud, internet fraud and now has a criminal offense.
5. Has done nothing to date to reconcile and even admitted in PM (QRZ E-mail) that he wouldn't be sending money.

So, he deliberately intended to commit fraud from the outset, committed fraud and to this date, still is hiding from the various amateur radio sites.

Recommendation:
1. Do not do any business with this loser, buying, selling or forums at all. Distance yourself as you have no idea what me may pull you into.

2. Watch for future scams which I am certain will apper after some time.

Complaints have been sent to NFCU, Pensacola Police deprt. Whether they follow up is their business. But AVOID this criminal.
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