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KM4OP (Philip Rivera) You Decide
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:19 am
I purchased an Icom 706MKIIG advertised here on QTH from a Philip Rivera KM4OP last week. The following is a cut and paste from his original add I made my buying decision from. The Add # was 782009
Heading: ICOM- IC-706MKIIG NEAR MINT WITH REMOKIT
> Ad Message:
LOWER PRICE.... NEVER MOBILE ICOM IC-706MKIIG, NOT MUCH USE, SITS HERE IN THE SHACK, COMES WITH MIC, POWER CORD, REMOTE KIT,MANUAL. $675 NOW...$645 SHIPPED.
I received the radio this evening and as I un-boxed it I was presented by a scratched, gouged, bare metal showing, faceplate deformed radio which was advertised as "near mint" "never mobile".
Folks, trying to remain emotionless in my overall summary. This radio looks like it was dragged Behind a Car!
Within minutes of un-boxing it I took over 60 photo's and contacted the seller requesting a refund. Philip told me he had already spent the money but if I sent the radio back, he would try and sell it again then get me some money.
I contacted several of my QTH friends and all advised against that. I then contacted Philip and told him I would pay shipping and handling back, UPS insured with a tracking number, but he need to send my original purchase price first. He refused and told me that if I kept the radio any length of time the deal was done.
I am unable to post the pictures on this website, I would ask that you go to my own website of http://n5ou.com/photo_album/
and look for yourself the shape that this near mint radio was delivered in. If I am being to much of a stickler, or if this should be handled differently I welcome your constructive suggestions.
73's Richard N5OU
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:59 am
Thank you for the suggestions Paul. Pictures speak a 1000 words don't they. The radio serial number is 16827, I have done a search in this forum looking for a stolen report and have not seen any, If someone else knows anything about this radio I would appreciate a PM. I will expand my search to other forums.
I will contact the authorities in the morning as suggested. Texas does have several stipulations in the penal code that I can use to attempt to resolve this.
73's Richard N5OU.
DEAL WITH RICHARD N5OU 706MKIIG
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:24 am
ANYONE THAT HAS HAD DEALING WITH ME IN THE PAST KNOWS that I am up front with my items, the 706 never been mobile and is 100% operational, not perfect, and surely not new. I sent Richard pictures of the radio before he sent the funds. there is NO RUST, it does have a nick here and there and that is mostly around where the bracket was when it was mounted below the shelf here in the shack.
Richard should show a picture of the front and complete radio, then you will see the radio is not really in the shape that he wants you to think. he is just one of thoses picky people, he should stick to buying NEW AND NOT USED. I have had MANY MANY DEALING HERE AND ON QRZ WITH NEVER A PROBLEM AND I AM TALKING YEARS!! thank you. PHIL KM4OP
Lets correct the record
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:49 am
The greatest thing about email is that there is a written record. Philip writes in his post that he sent pictures to me prior to the purchase, that is simply not true. I have the entire email thread which I will now post on my website. He then states I should take a picture of the overall radio, I have and it is posted on the website. Again, you decide.
I can assure you that if I had sent a fellow ham a radio that they were not happy with I would simply return the money and have them return the radio. I have repacked the radio in the same material used to send it to me and stand ready to send it back as I received it if Philip will return my funds.
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:56 pm
These photos are not the best quality and were taken with my iphone just a few minutes after receiving the radio last night. I have decided to un-pack the radio again today and take High Definition photos to rebuke the (no-rust) comment Philip made above. HD photos will be up shortly.
I believe a clarification is in order on the separation kit. What I received was not a kit, rather a well used remote plate and well used remote cable both of which are damaged. No screws or other items in a "kit" were included.
Ref: w0bkr comments
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:02 pm
Thank you for the insight. I agree that normal wear would have been a more appropriate listing. However, I would not have even given the ad a second look as that was not what I was looking for. This is not about the price or getting a partial refund. This is about Honesty and "Hams taking care of Hams". I am truly blessed in life with my faith, wonderful friends and a lifelong hobby. $645 is not going to be the end of the world for me, but it certainly could have been for a younger just starting out Ham, or an older on fixed income Ham. If this serves any purpose, hopefully it will be to protect them from such traders.
I am overwhelmed by the number of PM's and support I am receiving. I have also taken some advice I got this morning from a moderator at the "other" major swapping forum and have started the same thread there.
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 pm
Philip has now gone to "another swap forum" and posted the following statements. "Richard has had the radio for a week now". Again this is simply not true, I signed for it last night from USPS and will post a copy of the dated receipt on my website.
He then accuses me of damaging the radio myself and states the remote kit was new. Please examine the photo's for any evidence of that statement.
He then accuses me and everyone on QTH of bashing. I apologize to anyone who might view my presentation of the facts and evidence as I have them as bashing. It was not meant to be that, simply a focus on the truth.
POST FROM QRZ
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:09 pm
This deal, have left a bad taste in my mouth, everyone that had any dealing with me knows that I am up front, I have had over 700 post here on qrz and never had a problem. I never said the radio was Mint or perfect, the radio never been mobile, it was in a bracket from time to time under the shelf, the remote kit cable was NEW the mounting plate for the remote was still in the package it came in, I did tell Richard I was missing the mounting screws.
The radio is 100% operational. it does have nicks here and there. I do not have any junk in my shack. Richard and his friends are fast to bash, he has had the radio almost a week now. he will not send the rig back, he wants me to send funds?? how do I know he did not cause a problem? I was thinking about refunding his money, We could have worked this out, but now he can keep it. he is just one of those picky people that should not BUY USED RADIOS STICK TO NEW ITEMS.
I SHOULD HAD USED OTHER WORDING IN THE POST BECAUSE SOME PEOPLES VIEW OF CONDITION IS NOT THE SAME AS OTHERS. LESSON LEARNED FOR ME. ALSO I THINK I WILL STICK TO LOCAL TRADING FROM NOW ON OR JUST WITH FOLKS I HAVE HAD DEALING WITH IN THE PAST.
THIS WILL BE THE LAST OF MY COMMENTS ON THIS MATTER.
OH, MR W8JN, YES I NEEDED THE MONEY TO BUY A TURKEY JUST LIKE YOU.
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:31 pm
His post continue to leave me speechless. He acknowledges in his email last night at 6:09 pm that he went to the post office yesterday morning and tracked the package to my post office where it was awaiting to be picked up. He acknowledges that I actually picked it up at 2:27 pm. Then he comes on here and post that "I have had the radio for a week". It has not even been 24hours???
He then contradicts himself with the New Kit, but acknowledges missing items. The pictures do not show a new kit? He stated yesterday evening in an email that I have posted on my website prior to any post here on QTH or any other forum that he would "NOT send me the money" as he did not have it. He would have to get the radio back from me and resell it to refund me "some money". But he comes on this and other forums and states "he was thinking about refunding me the money but not now".
He stated last night on this forum that he sent me pictures of the radio prior to the sale, yet I have posted the entire email thread "unbroken and un-edited" which clearly shows that not to be true.
Am I that far out in left field? Am I missing something? Do I need to re-consider or review this process in any way?
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:37 pm
KM4OP has been blocked from using the QTH.com Classifieds in the future.
This radio is so far away from "near-mint" no matter how you define "near-mint". The buyer had every right to request a refund, and when he was refused, well, I do not want sellers like this on my site. Blocked.
73 - Scott KA9FOX
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:57 pm
you do a terrific job keeping this site honest! its too bad all the other site operators dont do the same.
best 73 paul w8jn
Re: DEAL WITH RICHARD N5OU 706MKIIG
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:27 pm
KM4OP wrote: I have had MANY MANY DEALING HERE AND ON QRZ WITH NEVER A PROBLEM AND I AM TALKING YEARS!! thank you. PHIL KM4OP
THAT ship has sailed!!!
Philip Rivera's Request
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:34 pm
To be absolutely as fair as I can be, I took the radio back out of the box, got my High Definition Camera and took some pictures of the full radio as Philip Requested in his post in the sunlight under the best possible conditions. I am not sure they turned out exactly as he had hoped for but I will let them speak for themselves. They are now posted at http://www.n5ou.com/photo_album/
I then powered the radio up and HF/VHF appear to be fully operational. I did not test UHF. However the built in speaker does not function correctly. It sounds as if it was over driven at some point or possible has a tear. A closer look at the pictures posted show a line of rust across the inner shield of the radio speaker screen, that may be cause and effect. It could also be a liquid that was spilled on it at some point and it penetrated. Philip did include in the package an small very abused external mobile speaker which was not part of the original deal. I assume he included that because the internal speaker problem was a known issue.
The bail on the lower side of the wire has a fracture in the plastic, visible in the posted pictures.
If I decide to keep the radio, I will order a new top and bottom cover, bail and attachments along with the speaker and a new microphone. If not, the honest value of this radio is just a few hundred dollars.
it just gets worse
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:33 pm
richard, i just looked at the new pictures. this just gets worse. it looks as though he has touch up painted some of the metal case. this was not his personal rig. he went to a flea market and bought a piece of junk to resell. keep those pictures up forever. it will serve as a reference to anyone thinking about buying from phil! make sure you post this update on qrz.com
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:10 pm
NEAR MINT?!? Not even close! Why, for the few bucks you make, is it worth lying about about the condition of something that you are selling? Especially because chances are pretty good these days, that you will find your "BAD" deal will show up in one of these forums (not to mention, all over the web). Paul. W8JN and I had discussed recently, while we were making a deal, why would ANYONE want to have their call-sign associated with anything like this? Once your black-balled, your selling days on this, as well as most of the other forums is about over. And like Paul said Richard, keep those pictures up, as well as the ad, and don't forget to post this to QRZ.com as well.
73 de Frank/KB2VYZ
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:14 pm
Wow it is even worse than i thought.I'm surprised it actually works at all. Did you CK power out put? With the new pictures i would not even call it near fair let alone mint. PHIL GIVE THE MAN BACK HIS MONEY,Surely you have more pride about your self than this thread is showing. If moneys tight then sell some thing else but give the money back as you beyond any doubt deliberately misrepresented that radio.
hey phil read this, frank is honest, you are not
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:33 pm
kb2vyz/frank...great guy, honest ham! phil pay attention. maybe you can learn from frank's example. first let me state , several years ago i purchased a $50 item from frank. long story short, usps screw up and the item was returned to frank. he searched for me for 10 months trying to get the $50 part to me and i had just simply forgotten about it. NOW THATS HONEST!!!
next. two weeks ago frank listed a ts2000 for sale on the classifieds. price was below market value for an 8 month old ts2000. i contacted frank and the first thing he said he said was "i am a smoker and i cannot represent this as anything other than a smokers rig and i cannot ask top dollar" i liked the price and franks proven honesty so i bought the rig. it arrived in 100% condition electrically but exactly as frank described, "a smokers rig" i am 100% satisfied and the rig was exactly as frank described, no surprises. frank is a good guy. you on the other hand phil?????
best 73 paul w8jn
Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:45 pm
I was able to review the pictures. That radio is clearly NEAR MINT provided it is WWII surplus. I'm not sure when that radio was manufactured but don't believe it even was in the 20th century so it is far too young to be classified as "near mint" for the condition it shows. It is hardly "normal use" and more like "normal abuse."
be a man
Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:17 pm
come on phil, be a man admit your mistake and make things right. everyone makes mistakes. honest people mend their ways. you can fix this and repair your reputation by making restitution. i am sure richard will indicate that you stepped up to the plate and corrected this! yaesu sold a rig for $11,000 and it did not work as promised. they made a lot of customers angry. they recalled every rig they sold and corrected all the issues at their expense. the only thing people remember at this point is yaesu admitting their mistake and making every customer worldwide happy. you can do it to phil! be a man, do the right thing.
best 73 paul w8jn
Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:17 pm
KM4OP has been banned from QRZ.COM until the matter is resolved to N5OU's satisfaction.
Terry Graves, K7FE
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:18 am
First off in IMHO the radio is certainly not mint. But if I spotted it for $500-550 I certainly give it a second look if in the market for such a radio.
Whenever I sell a rig and a potential purchaser begins to inquire about "small scratches" it throws up a HUGE warning flag. Most purchasers looking for such a rig will tend to be sticklers about appearance and be the quickest to complain. My response to them is to send them a large batch of good quality pictures and to ask them (politely of course) to make up their own mind about the appearance. I refuse to call a radio mint under any circumstances. I'll describe it as good or fair, but hardly ever excellent. I'll also tell the person that if they really want a mint radio this isn't the rig to buy. This tends to chase them off, but honestly I don't want to deal with people like that. I'd rather you think you bought a POS and then be pleasantly surprised when you open the box and find a nice rig that was better than the advertised description. Just the opposite of a certain con artist on that auction site.
Phil send the money back. It isn't worth your reputation in the least for a measly $650.
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:27 pm
ALL radios are "Near Mint".
Just how far from being "Mint" is the real issue!
No quality pictures, no sale!
$650 mk2g+ near mint
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:48 pm
i agree with your basic premis, however if you track icom mk2g's, you will find that the resale market for them is soft. $650-$699 with the rmk kit is just about right for one to arrive in mint condition with factory box, manual and rmk kit which is usually tossed in free when purchased new. i have had 5 or 6 of them , all mint, and never paid more than $650. ocassionally, the seller included both filters.
phil was clearly out to turn a quick $$$ on a rig he trashed or picked up at a flea market. he will never be able to do that again on the internet, however its unfortunate that richard had to bite the bullet on this one.
73 paul w8jn
c'mon phil, man up and send richard his $$$ back. we all know you are reading these notes, even though your kindergarden teacher made you take a time out!!! too bad they dont hand out dunce caps anymore. kinda reminds me of the boardgame "clue" philip, in the corner, with a dunce cap... hihi
Philip Contacted Me
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:27 pm
Last night I received an email from Philip asking me if $300 would "put this to rest". I told him I wanted a full refund, but if he was absolutely refusing to do that then I would except a partial refund to restore the radio. He states he is sending payment today. I will update if I receive it.
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:40 pm
richard, $300 should do it. if the rig works to any degree, take the $300 and list the mk2g for sale for $350. describe it in detail, and mention that the rig was from our boy phil. $350 will sell it in 30 seconds and you will have escaped without a $$$ loss. it has been a headache, but no loss. let us know when "phil boy" has his money in your hands!!!
best 73 paul w8jn
wow phil, you sure made a mess for yourself! everyone in the ham community sees this mess as your creation and this thread already had more than 1500 reads in 3 days! you have a lot of work mending fences!