Beware ( W4DG )

Share information regarding your recently completed deals with other ham operators. ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with the transaction can post in this forum. If you have a report of a scam by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead.
Forum rules
As of Dec 9, 2013: ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with a transaction can post here. Do not post replies in any topic if you are not the buyer or seller in the transaction being discussed! If you believe you can help the buyer or seller, please use the Private Message system to communicate with them. NOTE: if you have been scammed by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead. See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136 for additional rules.
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wb0vak
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:08 am

Beware ( W4DG )

Post by wb0vak » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:24 am

I had a rotor purchase with W4DG.
I can not understand how someone could ever sell something
that will never work. I sent pix of the junk.....
>>>He Just took the $$$$ and Tough Luck<< !!!
Buyer beware and PLEASE get pix.
Do not take another ham's word about a world class station
and it's equipment.

Any other questions before making a deal with him please contact me.

Good in QRZ

Dave WB0VAK

w4dg
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:43 pm
Location: West Central Florida

Reply to a Bad Transaction

Post by w4dg » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:14 pm

As all know, there is always two (2) side of every story told. Given my health status, I would not even normally reply to such a one side drama queen statement.

But after 52 years in amateur radio and a lifetime in Law Enforcement and owning a commerical 2-way radio sales & service, telephone interconnect and security corporation, I find it at least necessary to post a resonse to this posters comments; his comments just made know to me today.

I was diagnosed with terminal cancer when I sold the HY-GAIN HDR-300 and personally email & spoke personally with the purchaser AND I noted I did not know what condition the rotor motor was in, as I had to pay $3k, to have a 70' motorized tower (sold) removed by crane, and then several ham friends took apart the antennas (three (3) Force12 yagis - were all sold) and the HDR-300 rotor motor was removed from the top section of that tower.

Since I had not seen the rotor motor, or for that matter anything else that was taken down, or how it was taken down, or placed it, or saw it placed under the covered carport (as I was too busy trying to stay alive), I informed everyone who bought any and all items that I could not and would not guarantee - any items.

THEY WERE ALL SOLD IN AS-IS CONDITION & AT LESS THAN HALF THEIR VALUE.

In the case of the motorized 70' tower, a local ham came over to my new QTH and met with another ham friend, who personally showed him it and watched it loaded onto a flat bed truck, and took his payment and gave it to my XYL. I never saw it leave my new QTH. He also disposed of the large FORCE12 yagi antennas, which were all sold, to out of town hams. My HB RF 3CX2500F3 HF Ampfiliers (4) were also purchased by and personally picked up at my new QTH, from a ham from New England. Everything he bought was as described in my QTH.COM ads and was removed from my QTH. This ham paid nearly ten (10) times what was paid for a used rotor I personally hadn't seen in over three (3) years!

EVERYONE WHO BOUGHT ANYTHING KNEW THEY WERE BEING ALL ITEMS - SOLD AS-IS!

And again, for about 1/2 the price of the same products new cost, or to build at today's costs!

If this complainer wanted, or expected new, with a guarantee or warranty itrms, he should pay the long dollar, AND BUY NEW.

Since I decided to down-size the QTH's, to something my XYL could manage, all towers, the antennas and the rotor, were stacked under a carport, on the new QTH property, until eventually they were all sold.

This chap, who wanted a "deal" and not pay $1300 for the rotor control and motor, was told that the motor was left - "on the ground for nearly 3 years
- again, I new knew nothing about its condition, or if it needed to be rebuilt. I could only state that it was working correctly,before it was removed from service". This same sentence was within my QTH.COM ad!

He said that at less than half the price of a new one, and as the control was known to be OK (that was in a heated/AC garage, in its original box), he went for the deal knowing FULL well about my health condition and that all my towers, antennas and the rotor motor, were stored outdoors, for over 3 years, before being sold - "AS-IS", which was clearly stated in my QTH.COM ads.

Being sick, I was not then, nor am I now going to get into a pissing match with someone healthy, who has all the time in the world, to try to impugn me and my ham radio reputation. So any other posts by this complainer, I don't want to be notified!

As I have said above, I have been a ham for over 52 years, have sold literally hundreds of items on both QTH.COM & eBay, have held over 14 positions in the ARRL Field & Services division, in the past and for the last 15 years, have been involved in the ARRL West Central Florida Section - full throttle!

My reputation now, after 52 years, is being maligned by someone, who knowing the fact situation, elected to purchase the HDR-300 in as-is condition! That was his choice - as I sent him copies of all our original email correspondences that made all of these facts know to him, multiple photos and he still demanded that I return his full purchase price, when I'm sick as hell, from chemo.

But hay, so what, he had been saving for a long time to purchase his "dream rotor"!

I have little time to haggle with someone who is a big boy, who was told and understood by his own emails -understanding the facts of this situation but when he elected to take HIS chance on getting a "steal", as he called it, - I feel I was more than fair, in my disclosures!

Funny thing is, I had over 900 eBay sales and about another 100 on QTH.COM and one (1) ham, who wanted a "steal of a bargain", has a hissy fit when he doesn't get what he expected, even though I had represented, in writing, as a disclosure, in absolute black & white print, on many emails, exactly that exception!

LIKE EBAY ALWAYS STATES - CAVEAT EMPTOR (buyer beware)!

As Paul Harvey used to say - Now that's my side of the story!

73, Dennis Griffin - W4DG
ASM, OOC & Webmaster
ARRL West Central Florida Section
www.arrlwcf.org

k4txi
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:03 pm
Location: California

re -rotor issue

Post by k4txi » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:39 pm

Hello ,
Maybe , I do not have a rat in this race but I am very sorry to hear of your health issues W4DG .But it does not matter who you were part of or what kind of law enforcement you were in its not about Im this or that or who we know. we are all the same here & you pull your pants on like anybody else if you are going to sell an item then just be honest and upfront don't give a 500 word paragraph "AS IS " Always stands up red flags .of coarse thats my opinion. Hope things work out for both parties.

QTH is the place to get your Items from.
100%

hamradman
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:36 am

Post by hamradman » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:02 am

Dennis,
Just because of your health status and 52 years in amateur radio and being in law enforcement and 2 way radio sales & service and having a security company makes what ever you do all right! I know that whenever someone starts bragging first as to what they are and have done means they lied and want us to believe them.
Be a "good" cop and give him his money back.

K7LRB
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:24 am
Location: Sahuarita, AZ
Contact:

Beware?

Post by K7LRB » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:03 pm

This is ludicrous!

OK children, let’s look at the facts based upon the posts. It appears that no one who has posted a comment thus far has any other information than what has been presented here in this forum. That being the case, let’s look at FACTS as stated herein:

Posted by WB0VAK:


“I had a rotor purchase with W4DG.”
OK, we’ll take your word for that, W4DG does not deny this.

“I can not understand how someone could ever sell something
that will never work. I sent pix of the junk.....”

I’m sure the vast majority of us can’t understand that either. Why did you take “pix of the junk” and to whom did you send them?

“Buyer beware and PLEASE get pix.”
Brilliant! This applies to just about any purchase made by anyone, from anyone else, for whatever the item, common sense most of us have. Did YOU “get pix”?

“Do not take another ham's word about a world class station
and it's equipment.”

Does this include you, YOUR word?
(BTW, for those interested, you CAN take my word about equipment and I can provide many references to back that up. There are many, many posts in this very forum of hams whose word you can take; N3EJT, KA2TTU and N8ERM to name but a few for starters. Don’t throw ALL the hams under the bus.)

“Any other questions before making a deal with him please contact me.”
I’ve done pretty well at “making a deal” without your help so far, but thanks for the offer.


Now let’s look at W4DG’s reply:

If you read his reply, several facts are stated. The item in question is a “HY-GAIN HDR-300” rotor. W4DG states that he had advertised this rotor “AS IS”. WB0VAK does not deny this.

“I informed everyone who bought any and all items that I could not and would not guarantee - any items.” WB0VAK does not deny this.

“This chap, who wanted a "deal" and not pay $1300 for the rotor control and motor, was told that the motor was left - "on the ground for nearly 3 years”. WB0VAK does not deny this. NOTE: If I acquired something from west central Florida that had been stored outside for 3 years, I would be absolutely stunned if it DID work! (That’s why the military stores airplanes in AZ folks!)

“ - again, I new knew nothing about its condition, or if it needed to be rebuilt. I could only state that it was working correctly,before it was removed from service". This same sentence was within my QTH.COM ad!” WB0VAK does not deny this.

It is evident from the W4DG’s reply that the price charged for the rotor was a “steal” and, according to W4DG was called so by the buyer. WB0VAK does not deny this.

“Funny thing is, I had over 900 eBay sales and about another 100 on QTH.COM and one (1) ham, who wanted a "steal of a bargain", has a hissy fit when he doesn't get what he expected, even though I had represented, in writing, as a disclosure, in absolute black & white print, on many emails, exactly that exception!” WB0VAK has provided no evidence to refute this statement.

The two posts that follow are laughable at best. Re-read the post by K4TXI. W4DG never made any claim of EVER having been a Siamese twin. Both of the posts berate W4DG for telling us a little about himself. I think the effort here was simply to acquaint any interested reader as to who he is, what he has done with ham radio over his lifetime and some of his accomplishments. His purpose was simply to let us know a little bit about him and helps establish credibility as to his knowledge, experience and reputation as a ham radio operator, public servant and business owner. It would be of little use to simply say, “I’m a ham”. For that matter, we have no way of knowing if “hamradman” even IS a ham. Where is his credibility?

“hamradman”: “I know that whenever someone starts bragging first as to what they are and have done means they lied and want us to believe them.”
So, if Neil Armstrong told you he is an astronaut and was the first man to walk on the moon, would you call HIM a liar?
I fly jets and have thousands of flying hours flying Learjets alone. Are you calling ME a liar? Pretty bold, slinging accusations around while hiding behind a secret identity.

K4TXI: "AS IS " Always stands up red flags .of coarse thats my opinion”
Not “always”. It may simply mean that the item has been stored under a carport, on the ground in central Florida for 3 years and the owner simply cannot verify that it works. Of course, that’s my opinion.

Again, I “presume” that none of the posters have any additional knowledge of this transaction other than what is posted in this forum. Bottom line here is it appears that W4DG has experienced some health problems and decided to be proactive in disposing of much of his year’s long collection of ham gear. This certainly could prove to be a blessing to his wife in the future. Apparently, again from the information available, WB0VAC saw an opportunity to take advantage of circumstances (nothing wrong with that) and get a rotor at a bargain price. He never stated that he ever asked for “pix” and he has not denied that any information, INCLUDING ample warning, was withheld from him.

W4DG, Dennis, appears to be a “stand up” gentleman who has been a public servant, business owner and highly experienced amateur radio operator, FWIW, the only extra class ham to post thus far. If you disagree, I am open to PROOF otherwise.

Some of the suggestions for buying, and selling, equipment are tried and true, “standard” measures one can take to protect one’s self. Be responsible for your own decisions. Don’t blame someone else when you make a bad one.

If you decide to “make a deal” with W4DG, or anyone else for that matter, you do NOT need to contact WB0VAK. :)

Dennis, I wish you the very best dealing with the devastating disease of cancer. My prayers are with you.

Safe trading and 73,
de Larry

lhk0pd
Posts: 715
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:01 pm
Location: dodge city kansas
Contact:

Post by lhk0pd » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:20 pm

Well said Larry K7LRB...DE Larry K0pd
Larry Huff K0pd

hamradman
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:36 am

Post by hamradman » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:33 pm

Larry,
If I ask Neil Armstrong about a defective rotor he sold and he starts off with who he is and what he did, whats that got to do with my question?
If I ask you about a defective rotor you sold and you start bragging about who you are and what you fly, whats that got to do with my question?
Again, it sounds like he is trying to win us over by who he is and what he did rather then admitt he sold a piece of junk!

lhk0pd
Posts: 715
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:01 pm
Location: dodge city kansas
Contact:

Post by lhk0pd » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:07 pm

Hamradman what is it about being sold as is where is that is so hard to understand. I believe most buyers that would buy any thing that the seller says they have no knowledge any longer of it's condition understand the risk. I just recently bought a radio under those circumstances and am now having it fixed,and i knew when i bought it that it was a 50/50 chance of it not working like it should but still i gambled and lost and i'm not complaining as the seller had made the all to common, i do not know if it works right or not as i have no knowledge or way of testing it.
What puzzles me is that you seem to think a person that is proud of their life and accomplishments would signafy dishonesty. I don't know about you but i've seen and personally know of people and i'm not saying the person who bought the Rotor is this way,but people who i've given things to, and friends who gave away things only to have the person come back and complain about it's condition. I know your response was not directed at me but i still felt your seeing things out of perspective.
Larry Huff K0pd

k4kk
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:20 am
Location: The great state of Tennessee

Post by k4kk » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:25 am

I tend to be a trusting type and have been pretty accurate with my gut reactions. If it says "as is" I ask questions. Then I base my decision on those answers and am prepared to live with the result. If I don't ask questions, shame on me. Only if I am lied to would I react with disdain. I don't see any lies in this transaction.

w8jn
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

my opinion

Post by w8jn » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:20 pm

an item that is broken beyond repair is worthless. to sell an item that is not repairable for $500 (even if it retails for $1000) is $500 to much. no one was cheated here, however if i have an item that is questionable or untested, i always tell my buyer to ship it back if it does not work. look at how much ill will and aggravation has been created here over a few $$$.
bernie madoff was a nice guy loved by everyone in the country until he ended up in the greybar.
73 paul w8jn

K7LRB
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:24 am
Location: Sahuarita, AZ
Contact:

Getting stupid!

Post by K7LRB » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:14 pm

Some of you are really getting stupid here.

“an item that is broken beyond repair is worthless”.
No one said it was broken beyond repair. No one said it was repairable either. W4DG CLEARLY stated that he had no idea if the rotor worked or not AND described where and how it had been stored for 3 years. Re-read my post about items stored in Florida, outside, no less!

“if i have an item that is questionable or untested, i always tell my buyer to ship it back if it does not work”
OK, you offer a money back guarantee, even if the item breaks in transit. W4DG does not. (I presume from your post that you would refund money even if the buyer just ‘claims’ an item he bought from you does not work? What if HE broke it?)
NOTE: I'd be willing to bet that Dennis WOULD offer your money back if he sold you an item that he advertised as working. ADVERTISED AS WORKING!

“look at how much ill will and aggravation has been created here over a few $$$”
Aggravation has been created, yes, by WB0VAK because he thought he was going to get something he thought was “HIS chance on getting a "steal", as he called it”. It didn’t work out for him so he snivels and whines and trashes W4DG. This is roughly the equivalent of dropping a thousand bucks at a casino and then wanting your money back because you didn’t win.

How stupid is that??

Grow up!

de Larry

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