w8jn vs. n6dxn the peoples court, you decide guilty? or not

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w8jn
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w8jn vs. n6dxn the peoples court, you decide guilty? or not

Post by w8jn » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:43 am

follow up. after 2 1/2 months, i received a refund from the usps in the amount of $895.00. richard slocum is not a crook. he is unethical and a weasel. his decision to lie to me, throw my pmo's in the garbage, and sell his rig locally for a few extra dollars will scar his reputation forever. before you send richard $$$ be aware that he will sell his equipment to a higher bidder for a couple extra dollars after you send him money. caveat emptor.
ps.... i did receive a confidential email from one of his pals in california detailing exactly what he did.......

Written by w8jn. no whining from me, just information for you if you deal with n6dxn. are you about to enter into a deal with richard sclocum n6dxn ? here is a story about w8jn and n6dxn. judge for yourself before you send money or equipment. richard advertised an item and i called him with an offer to purchase. we negotiated a price and i immediately sent him a pmo for $895. i did not ask for delivery Confirmation or signature. shame on me! during the past 6 months i have send pmo's and equipment out to the following hams with no problems,
i sent jim ousley n4lj a pmo in the amount of $1150 july 23 2009. he received it today (24th) and he shipped today.
sent wayne k4elo pmo's for $2700 on thursday july 9th 2009. he received them sat july 11th AND HE SHIPPED THE FOLLOWING MONDAY.scheduled for delivery by ups WEDNESDAY JULY 15.
icom r9500 to larry urry (yes the $14,000 receiver). it arrived ahead of schedule no problems.
shipped an ameritron al1500 to richard guy it arrived ahead of schedule with no problems.
sent lenny n2len, $12,000 in equipment in 5 boxes and it arrived as promised no problems.
sent molly at alpha radio products a $10,000 cashiers check via first class mail it arrived on time no problems.
sent roger k7erq YAESU FTDX9000D it arrived on time, no problems.
and much much more.
now, the deal with richard. two weeks before july 4th weekend 2009 i sent him a pmo for $895. four days later, richard emailed me and asked if i sent the pmo. not only did i assure him it was sent, i emailed him a photo of the pmo. at that point i started calling him once per day and he
would call me at the end of the day with a status update. he travels for work and could not check the daily mail until 4 or 5 p.m pacific time (7-8 p.m. est) at the end of the first week i offered to "express mail" richard a new pmo via usps next day. he declined the offer and said "lets wait". two more times during the 14 days i offered to send "express mail" next day a new pmo and each time richard said "dont worry". i was baffled as
to why he turned down an immediate solution to the problem. i assured richard not to worry about the lost pmo, i would file a "lost, stolen" pmo report with usps. fourth of july weekend was approaching and i again offered to send richard a new pmo via express mail. richard said "lets wait till tuesday july 7th and we will proceed from there. richard always emailed or called me around 8 p.m. est because he was on the road with business in california. on this tuesday (july 7th) i received an early email in the middle of the day indicating "no pmo and i sold it to a local because i gave him my word and i have to keep my word"
I am not worried about my money. the usps will eventually refund it. there are a number of possible scenarios:
1. w8jn never sent the money
2. w8jn was delaying sending for some reason
3. w8jn sent the pmo's out instantly and they were
legitimately lost or stolen
4. richard received a better offer locally which meant no
shipping and more money. that would explain why he kept putting me off and refused my numerous offers to send another $895 express mail.. richards rig was sold and long gone. now.... in the business world, sometimes this stuff happens. i only wish richard had the stones to tell me day one that he was backing out of our deal. that way he could have sent my pmo back and i would not be out $895 for 4 months. i would have been a bit annoyed, but i would have appreciated his honesty and my money would have been returned instead of in richards garbage can, this is the peoples court, you decide.
best
73 paul w8jn
ps... all of the emails are available for your perusal. they were all courteous and timely. obviously the phone calls are a matter of subjective reconstruction. yes the usps does occasionally lose mail. however richards behavior in this case does not match the situation.
Last edited by w8jn on Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

K4ICL
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"Guilt" is not the issue here.

Post by K4ICL » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:12 pm

My personal opinion--airing this in public is not in the best interest of either party. It appears both were acting in a reasonable manner.

No one is guilty of anything.

The deal was not to be. Perhaps just bad Karma...

K4ICL

w8jn
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$895

Post by w8jn » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:24 pm

i have had many deals fall through for one reason or another. None involved the mysterious vanishing of $895. maybe harry houdini???

w8jn
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agree

Post by w8jn » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:03 pm

i would normally agree howeer that does not explain richards strange reactions to my questions and the inconsistant last day email he sent. His behavior does not fit the puzzle.

lhk0pd
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Post by lhk0pd » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:08 pm

Paul a signature required is how i mail any payments for purchases .My judgment is something does appear to be out of place here.But the post office is notorius for losing important mail and has cost me penalties more than once and not talking about across country either.I just recently completed a transaction with K3JLS and even tho the amount was slightly below your's i spent the xtra money for Priority Mail and delivery confirmation.
Larry Huff K0pd

w8jn
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correct

Post by w8jn » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:33 pm

larry you are 100% correct. I allowed this to happen to me. Lesson learned!

wx1f
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Re: "Guilt" is not the issue here.

Post by wx1f » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:54 pm

K4ICL wrote:My personal opinion--airing this in public is not in the best interest of either party. It appears both were acting in a reasonable manner.

No one is guilty of anything.

The deal was not to be. Perhaps just bad Karma...

K4ICL
I don't agree. Having received a scan of the PMO..(I do that too) .the seller knows he is committed and selling it out from under someone to save shipping is lazy and dishonest. I for one, will never buy from him and I thank Paul for the heads up.

w8jn
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inconvience

Post by w8jn » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:17 pm

gordon,
backing out of the deal happens from time to time. its annoying but it happens. richard strung me along for 14 days, while he pretended to "not receive" my pmo. i offered numerous times to replace it next day mail. he kept refusing. i didnt put the puzzle parts together until he INSTANTLY emailed me tuesday midday after two weeks of communication in the evening because "he travels during the day" his next ridiculous comment. " i gave my word to a local ham, if your pmo didnt arrive by tuesday" and "i have to keep my word' i offered many times to send it next day and richard refused. add up all the puzzle parts/ he received my pmo on time and he sold it locally right away. thats why he didnt allow me to replace the pmo express mail. now its going to be 4 months of paperwork to hopefully receive a refund from the usps.
best 73 paul w8jn

K4ICL
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Huh?

Post by K4ICL » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:25 pm

I viewed the issue from both sides,

The seller sends a payment. It does not arrive. After days of not completing the deal, the buyer, wanting to bring closure to the deal, rightfully, starts getting impatient.

Finally after more days useless waiting, the seller, having had other offers with immediate payment available, sells the item to another buyer, one who will put money in his hand immediately.

There is no one to blame here. Why did the seller not want the buyer to send another payment? My guess is because he did not want to wait for the process to start over again, from the beginning, wasting more time. A normal reaction; especially if the seller is waiting for a payment needed to buy something else for his shack and has a quick deal alternate customer.

It was not the buyer's fault his payment did not arrive and I don't fault a seller for putting and end to a seeming endless unproductive process. I don't like the WAY he did it, any more than Paul does. But I can understand WHY he did it.

I lean towards being leary of publicly punching a guy out I don't even know. Where does this need to find blame come from?

Nuff Said...

K4ICL

w8jn
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al good point

Post by w8jn » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:59 pm

al, you make a good point! impatient seller with locals wanting to conclude it as soon as possible? that certainly seems reasonable on the part of the seller. at RICHARDS INSISTENCE we waited until tuesday july 7th. that was approximately 14 days past our initial contact. I WAS THE ONE WHO OFFERED to express mail another pmo early on. RICHARD REFUSED and said lets wait. that is what puzzled me. HE SAID GIVE IT TIME and i said let me send you a new pmo. thats where the puzzle does not add up. after we waited at his insistance and he refused to let me send him a new pmo, out of the blue he said, "ok its tuesday, times up sold to a local sorry" al, does that sequence make sense to you?

w8jn
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july 3rd email

Post by w8jn » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:50 am

from me to richard and richard to me, assuring me that i did not need to express mail him another pmo. then on july 7th he sent me an email, "times up, selling locally to bad." wham bam thank you maam..... truthfully he sold it 10 days earlier locally and made up the entire "lost pmo" scam. people change their minds... no problem... in this case i am out $895 for close to 16 weeks. dealing with richard? caveat emptor.


richard, thanks for your patience and support.
i will not let you down. Best 73 paul w8jn

Richard Slocum wrote:
> nothing today(Fri.) We can wait until Tuesday and then go forward with the next step. You don't need to overnight anything, just send it again unless you are in a hurry. But lets wait till tues for now. I do have another ham locally who is very interested but You have been waiting for a while due to the good ol USPS. As this is not your fault , I don't feel angry or misled. I hope this gets resolved quickly and the local ham can wait for now. I told him ous situation and asked him to wait until Tues. I told him last Wed. Thanks and 73, Richard

w8jn
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follow up

Post by w8jn » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:53 am

email to richard slocum 23 july 2009

Richard,
Unfortunately I filed a complaint today with the federal postal inspectors. The complaint listed postal money order # 16570****** in the amount of $895.00 sent to you on June 23 2009. The complaint also indicated that nothing was received in return for $895.00 sent to you. You can contact the federal postal inspectors and enter the above number and you will see that everything I indicated is accurate.
Had you been honest with me from the beginning none of this would have been necessary. You and I both know that you received a better offer and sold the rig to another ham. Had you simply said, "Paul I received a better offer and I am sending your pmo back", this would have all been forgotten. Now we have to go through this process. I am sorry that it has come to this.
Regards Paul w8jn

N9LCD
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A LITTLE "ROUGH JUSTICE"

Post by N9LCD » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:06 pm

Verdict in favor of the defendant N6DXN.

Plaintiff, W8JN, was no proof that defendant received the money order, much less cashed or otherwise negotiated it.

Plaintiff's complaint to the Postal Inspectors is unwarranted in view of the plaintiff's lack of evidence.

N9LCD

w8jn
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thanks

Post by w8jn » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:38 pm

gerald,
thanks for your input. to recover a lost, stolen or fraudulently taken pmo, it is mandatory to fill out the appropriate usps forms. in the event that it is stolen and later fraudulently cashed, the postal inspectors need a report detailing dates, payee, addresses etc. this is not about the actual pmo. please read the entire account and it will give you a better picture. richard strung me along for two weeks while he shopped the rig around to a local buyer who paid him more and he didnt have to ship. i am not concerned about the pmo. i will get my money back from the usps (after a 3 month delay). this entire article is about richards unethical way of doing business. he told me all along (see email above, and i am willing to send you the entire set) not to worry and stopped me from sending a new pmo next day mail. why would he stop me from sending a second pmo express mail unless he had already sold the rig? on three ocassions i offered to send a new pmo next day mail, each time richard had another excuse to "pass on the offer". he actually agreed in the above email, then instead of deleting his error, changed his mind in the email. go figure?? thats kind of like "i voted for it before i voted against it".
best 73 paul w8jn
ps... i sent jim ousley n4lj a pmo in the amount of $1150 july 23 2009. he received it today (24th) and he shipped today. i have been hoss trading for 10 years and have never run into a more convoluted silly story than richards.

W4LTD
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Post by W4LTD » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:45 pm

Perhaps you jumped the gun a little with filing a formal complaint?

I have dealt with many buyers who simply get cold feet after they promised to send a money order and never let me know that they simply changed their mind. After a week of waiting, and a lost sale, I had to re-list the item(s) and go through the entire sales process over again. This can be quite annoying. :x

Nowadays, if the transaction is for a significant amount of money, I usually ask for a 10% immediate deposit via PayPal with the balance mailed [as they wish] via the postal service. At least this way, the "buyer" is more reluctant to change their mind without notification. This has worked quite successfully... :D

73s,

lhk0pd
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Post by lhk0pd » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:41 pm

I'm still leaning towards Paul side of the case but it will be hard to find a unaminous Decision and Paul agreed to my first response in that in a case such as his a proof of delivery with Signature required would have placed the seller in a more weakened position to keep delaying the agreed upon transaction.
Larry Huff K0pd

w8jn
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thanks

Post by w8jn » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:57 pm

rf, thanks for your input and suggestion. i like the 10% paypal idea. here is the situation. i am out $895. richard either did not receive it or has it and is sitting on it and pretending that he never recieved it. it has been 35 days since the pmo was sent, and i have no merchandise. in the event that it was stolen, the postal inspectors need to be alerted in the event that someone tries to cash it. if it is lost i need to notify them to begin the "loss repayment" process. at the end of 60 days the pmo can be replaced, however the claim can be initiated immediately after purchase.
in all seriousness, if you sent out a pmo for $895 and the receiver claimed "i know nothing" when would you start the "loss, theft, fraud" claim process paperwork?
best 73 paul w8jn

ps.. larry, thanks for the support.. btw did you receive my email that my "special ops" son-in-law and my daughter made it back to USA soil? they are now stationed in D.C.

W1JCW
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N6DXN - Guilty

Post by W1JCW » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:09 pm

N6DXN - GUILTY of being immoral and a shady trader.

I would have accepted your first offer for a replacement pmo or what ever..

W8JN would have spent more of his time and money out of pocket, not to mention the trouble of filing a report and running around and all along N6DXN
is playing games and screwing around on the deal.

If N6DXN was not one of these guys who gets a better deal or didn't pay shipping on top of didn't care about having morals in dealing with fellow hams
you would have your deal W8JN.
73 -

W1JCW
John

w8jn
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john read all the details

Post by w8jn » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:29 pm

john, thanks, obviously you took the time to read all the details. you are as puzzled as i as to why he kept refusing to allow me to replace my pmo express mail. even stranger is his email saying "ok send me a new one, but next day is not necessary, oopps wait a minute, dont send a new one, lets just wait till tuesday" and then on tuesday, he emailed me in the middle of the day, "sorry paul, sold it locally, i gave him my word and have to honor my word" The old expression is, "when you speak the truth, you don't have to remember anything, because it never changes" it is laughable that he forgot that he sold the rig and instead of deleting his mistake, he corrected himself in his email to me (posted above). hihi
73 paul w8jn

Kurt - K8YZK
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Post by Kurt - K8YZK » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:50 pm

Since it seems that the pmo was not cashed, it is possible that it did get lost in the system, but at the same time, if the other ham decided to sell the radio to another ham, he should have said sorry, can't wait longer and end the deal instead of dragging it on.

Now how long does the PO say before it refunds you money?

KT

w8jn
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refund

Post by w8jn » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:34 pm

kurt,
you make a good point. thats what i originally thought also, until i put all the puzzle parts together. if it was really lost and he honored his agreement, he would have immediately accepted my offer to send a new pmo out express mail. if you look at his above email, he accepted my offer, then changed his mind in the same email. thats what happens when a person lies. he has to remember the details of the lie. richard got a stupid attack, made a mistake, and instead of deleting his mistake, he proceeded to correct his forgetfulness and send the error to me.
if its not cashed, it takes 60 days to start the process and another 4-6 weeks to run through the system. if its fraudulently cashed, the postal inspectors have to trace the bank account of the payee, and go after both the account of the payee and debit the institution that paid out the pmo.

lhk0pd
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Post by lhk0pd » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:30 pm

Paul looks like your point is winning out.Just read my PM and answered. Do hope when your money is recovered that like the late Paul Harvey would say now for the rest of the Story.....Larry
Larry Huff K0pd

wx1f
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Post by wx1f » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:59 pm

W4LTD wrote:Perhaps you jumped the gun a little with filing a formal complaint?

I have dealt with many buyers who simply get cold feet after they promised to send a money order and never let me know that they simply changed their mind. After a week of waiting, and a lost sale, I had to re-list the item(s) and go through the entire sales process over again. This can be quite annoying. :x

Nowadays, if the transaction is for a significant amount of money, I usually ask for a 10% immediate deposit via PayPal with the balance mailed [as they wish] via the postal service. At least this way, the "buyer" is more reluctant to change their mind without notification. This has worked quite successfully... :D

73s,
Charging a little extra "FEE" for using paypal is against the User Agreement you signed when joining PayPal. Please read your PAYPAL User Agreement. Sections:
4.3.e and 4.6.: 4.3.e - They discuss not only ebay and the fees being charged against the buyer but section 4.6, is about charging those fees on any other site(Like QTH ads)... Which means...if someone turns your PayPal ID and a copy of your ad to PayPal...your account (and it's funds) will go into a holding pattern and you could loose your PayPal account!

KC8KZY
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Post by KC8KZY » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:15 pm

wx1f wrote:
W4LTD wrote:Perhaps you jumped the gun a little with filing a formal complaint?

I have dealt with many buyers who simply get cold feet after they promised to send a money order and never let me know that they simply changed their mind. After a week of waiting, and a lost sale, I had to re-list the item(s) and go through the entire sales process over again. This can be quite annoying. :x

Nowadays, if the transaction is for a significant amount of money, I usually ask for a 10% immediate deposit via PayPal with the balance mailed [as they wish] via the postal service. At least this way, the "buyer" is more reluctant to change their mind without notification. This has worked quite successfully... :D

73s,
Charging a little extra "FEE" for using paypal is against the User Agreement you signed when joining PayPal. Please read your PAYPAL User Agreement. Sections:
4.3.e and 4.6.: 4.3.e - They discuss not only ebay and the fees being charged against the buyer but section 4.6, is about charging those fees on any other site(Like QTH ads)... Which means...if someone turns your PayPal ID and a copy of your ad to PayPal...your account (and it's funds) will go into a holding pattern and you could loose your PayPal account!
That's not what he said. He said he charges a 10% deposit via paypal, with the balance mailed to him.

N9LCD
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Post by N9LCD » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:30 am

Paul:

I don't disagree with your filing a complaint with the Postal Inspectors. It's important to start the recovery process promptly.

I dispute your use of the words "I sent him a money order and received nothing in return." The implication is N6DXN committed mail fraud. There is no fraud or other crime until it's proven that N6DXN or his agent negotiated the your money order.

If N6DXN actually received your money order, and there's no proof that he did, the worst thing he did was trash it.

I think that all of today's "instant" communications has led to some unrealistic expectations of "INSTANT GRATIFICATION" or "INSTANT FULFILLMENT".

It sounds like N6DXN couldn't wait for his money and you couldn't wait to get the rig.

JERRY

N9LCD

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