SOUR DEAL WITH DAN, W4XXL

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W1QJ
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Location: Connecticut
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SOUR DEAL WITH DAN, W4XXL

Post by W1QJ » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:36 pm

A few weeks ago Dan W4XXL advertised for sale a Heathkit SB-221 amplifier. He gave his phone number and I called him on it. He said he did not know much about the amp, but he did state it looked clean and looked as if it had little use. Seeing as it was an SB-221 which is the later model SB-220 I bought it for his asking price. No haggling!! I figured if the HV transformer was OK anything else that "might" be bad I can easily fix. So I was not overly concerned about "something small" being wrong. When the amp arrived I give it my usual visual inspection before I pug it in. As soon as I looked inside the "so called Sb-221" I visually saw the following:

!. It is not "in fact" an SB-221. It is an SB-220 with an SB-221 front panel.
2. The amp is a CB amp, all HF input coils missing and only a coil for 11 meters
3. The stock SB-221 tune cap was changed to make it work on 11 meters
4. Upon bringing the amp up on a Variac it was found that the HV transformer was shorted.
5. It was not clean inside like he said, it was dusty and had dead bugs in it.

So all an all I believe there was a gross misrepresentation of this amplifier as to what it was and it's condition. I e-maild Dan about all the problems and asked that "in light" of the facts could he make an adjustment on the price in the form of a rebate so I could now get a good working transformer, not to mention the missing HF parts essential to its use. I indicated that $170.00 would be advisable. He repied "I knew nothing about it. I had no way to plug it up. I stated that"

Fellow hams....That response is indicitive of the "EBAY MENTALITY"!! I indicated to Dan that I did not expect that kind of attitude here on QTH.COM and that is why I like to prefer to deal here instead of EBAY. No additional responses from him!!

I know some of you out there will fault me on this one and I DO assume some responsibility for falling for the " I know nothing about it" line. But, I just did not think I would see that kind of attitude here on QTH. The thing is he priced that amplifier as a working amplifier and when brought to light it's problems he should have made an adjustment. I think that is only good business and good amateur spirit. Ok, so maybe my fault all in all, but I just want to warn all of you out there that "if" you are thinking about doing any business with Dan W4XXL think about this sour deal I had with him.

73 and good trading......Lou W1QJ

n2gbt
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:50 pm

Re: SOUR DEAL WITH DAN, W4XXL

Post by n2gbt » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:38 am

W1QJ wrote:A few weeks ago Dan W4XXL advertised for sale a Heathkit SB-221 amplifier. He gave his phone number and I called him on it. He said he did not know much about the amp, but he did state it looked clean and looked as if it had little use. Seeing as it was an SB-221 which is the later model SB-220 I bought it for his asking price. No haggling!! I figured if the HV transformer was OK anything else that "might" be bad I can easily fix. So I was not overly concerned about "something small" being wrong. When the amp arrived I give it my usual visual inspection before I pug it in. As soon as I looked inside the "so called Sb-221" I visually saw the following:

!. It is not "in fact" an SB-221. It is an SB-220 with an SB-221 front panel.
2. The amp is a CB amp, all HF input coils missing and only a coil for 11 meters
3. The stock SB-221 tune cap was changed to make it work on 11 meters
4. Upon bringing the amp up on a Variac it was found that the HV transformer was shorted.
5. It was not clean inside like he said, it was dusty and had dead bugs in it.

So all an all I believe there was a gross misrepresentation of this amplifier as to what it was and it's condition. I e-maild Dan about all the problems and asked that "in light" of the facts could he make an adjustment on the price in the form of a rebate so I could now get a good working transformer, not to mention the missing HF parts essential to its use. I indicated that $170.00 would be advisable. He repied "I knew nothing about it. I had no way to plug it up. I stated that"

Fellow hams....That response is indicitive of the "EBAY MENTALITY"!! I indicated to Dan that I did not expect that kind of attitude here on QTH.COM and that is why I like to prefer to deal here instead of EBAY. No additional responses from him!!

I know some of you out there will fault me on this one and I DO assume some responsibility for falling for the " I know nothing about it" line. But, I just did not think I would see that kind of attitude here on QTH. The thing is he priced that amplifier as a working amplifier and when brought to light it's problems he should have made an adjustment. I think that is only good business and good amateur spirit. Ok, so maybe my fault all in all, but I just want to warn all of you out there that "if" you are thinking about doing any business with Dan W4XXL think about this sour deal I had with him.

73 and good trading......Lou W1QJ

A few different spins- me being a ham for a long time- I would open the case and take the time to give you an accurate description- and I would be knowledgable enough to see something isnt right with what I am selling- not ALL hams may be in this same category- theres alot of new hams out there-they MAY not know- or care to know-

As far as an adjustment- the right thing to do for him would be to refund your money. Period. I think you were generous in asking only for an adjustment.

Ive done the same thing- assumed alot- asked little questions from fellow hams- and got surprised in the end.

We want to THINK our community has a very high degree of integrity- and it does- you happen to find the small per centile that didnt.

Good luck
Joe N2GBT

kw0o
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:57 pm
Location: aurora, colorado

sour deal

Post by kw0o » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:11 pm

Something is missing here, or this is out and out theft.
It's one or the other.
Both guys are seasoned hams
What has happened to TRUTH, HONESTY AND INTEGRITY amongst our ranks??
:cry:
de kw0o kn

W1QJ
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:32 pm
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Post by W1QJ » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:24 pm

It happened exactly as I said, nothing is missing except some honesty on his part. That is what is missing. His whole defense to all this is he is not technical, knew nothing off all this, and it was sold "as is". I figured Ok, if that is true, here are the facts as they are since I know this stuff very well. Eeven after a careful explanation of the problems, the answer was still "SOLD AS IS"
Period, end of story. So I was out a transformer and a tank circuit in an SB-220 that was suppossed to be an SB-221. Nothing is missing in this story.

W4XXL
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:51 pm

Post by W4XXL » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:07 pm

I didn't represent this as a working amp. I bought it from an estate along with a bunch of other things. It was "SOLD AS IS". When I sold the amp I specified to the buyer I knew nothing about it. I had no way to test it. Also, the buyer waited almost 3 weeks before they contacted me. I even paid shipping. I like how people always try to rag someone when they don't know the whole story. I will not respond to any other comments on this thread. 73's and God Bless

W1QJ
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Post by W1QJ » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:25 pm

Like I said before, that is EBAY selling mentality. QTH holds its standards higher than that. I say, if you sell here, sell with a bit more integrity than EBAY. This is why many hams like to buy here instead of EBAY. Next time you have an amp like the one you sold me, sell it on EBAY....not here. People want more accountability here than that. I have said this before, and you still don't get it.

kw0o
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:57 pm
Location: aurora, colorado

Re: sour deal

Post by kw0o » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:56 pm

NY7Q wrote:Something is missing here, or this is out and out theft.
It's one or the other.
Both guys are seasoned hams
What has happened to TRUTH, HONESTY AND INTEGRITY amongst our ranks??
:cry:
Again, I say.............TRUTH, HONESTY AND INTEGRITY...
hams help hams, not hurt them
de kw0o kn

lhk0pd
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Post by lhk0pd » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:04 pm

Am taking no sides here but if indeed it was sold as W4XXL states SOLD AS IS in his only self defense then i would have to say it is a case of buyers remorse. As one who has bought and sold on E bay i do not understand the talk of it's bad it's E Bay mentality when the only out and out Shafting i've gotten so far was from a seller here on QTH but yet i do not use it as a scape goat for deals gone bad.
Larry Huff K0pd

KM5FL
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:30 am
Location: Texas, USA

Post by KM5FL » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:34 am

Last week I replied to an ad Dan W4XXL posted on QTH.com. He was selling an AL-1500.. He was selling it without the tube and, although he didn't come right out and say it was a working amp, the wording he used would lead a person to think it would.. He did state that the band switch and "some other minor parts" were missing.. Thinking the amp had been modified for monoband operation, I requested some pictures of the amp and also I asked a few questions pertaining to the amp.. In his reply, he completely ignored my questions, but he did send 3 pictures of the inside of the amp.. The pictures revealed that It was definitely an 11 meter "conversion".. I sent another email asking the previous not answered questions again and asked if the amp had been run on 11 meters.. I also stated that I wanted him to address my questions before I would consider making an offer.. His reply to that was basically "All you guys want something for nothing".. Needless to say, I quickly lost interest in dealing with him..


KM5FL

w8jn
Posts: 619
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dan is a crook, lou aint smart and nick did it right

Post by w8jn » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:37 pm

lou, you ignored every red flag ... shame on you and you deserved to be cheated. take the time to read nicks (KM5FL) note. he did it right. asked a lot of questions. dan craftily avoided the questions and nick did the smart thing... saw the red flags and walked away.. obviously dan is a c'ber selling burned out junk to hams who think they are going to get something for nothing. who in the heck buys from a knucklehead crook who advertises "estate sale, looks good, cant test, sold as is" translated into english..."i have this burned out piece of junk and i am looking for a fool to buy it and cheat them" lou, you learned a valuable lesson... time to stop whinning like a girl.. best regards paul w8jn

W1QJ
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Post by W1QJ » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:34 pm

OK Paul, fine, I am the sacraficial lamb. You can only be a martar once.

w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

no hero

Post by w8jn » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:57 pm

sorry,
you are not a hero, or sacrificial lamb. you were cheated by a crook. dan is a crook and will not last long here. no question that you were cheated. however... the long rambling whining you are doing is pitiful. if you were really interested in alerting fellow hams, you should have simply posted.
"hey everyone, i was cheated by dan, there were lots of red flage that i ignored, i used bad judgement, however you can learn from my experience" that would have been the way to accept responsibility for your poor judgement and helped the ham community. THEN YOU CAN GO AFTER HIM BEHIND THE SCENES!!! small claims court, local police, local attorney, postal inspectors, fbi fraud internet unit etc. be a man... admit that dan is a crook, a scam artist a pariah on the ham community, AND he hooked you because you FAILED to live by caveat emptor. i would have had respect for you and been on your side if you would have been a man and warned us about dan then said, "wow i screwed up" dont be like me... look out for criminal dan.

w8jn
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

attn: scott ka9fox

Post by w8jn » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:08 pm

scott, it appears from several posts that DAN, W4XXL is a con man selling burned out cb junk disgiused as ham equipment on qth. can anything be done about him? thanks on behalf of the ham community paul w8jn

w8jn
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lou, take note of the new post in feedback

Post by w8jn » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:57 pm

lou... you did good warning the ham community. please note my post in the feedback forum. 73 paul w8jn

kf9z
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:04 pm

Re: dan is a crook, lou aint smart and nick did it right

Post by kf9z » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:18 am

w8jn wrote:lou, you ignored every red flag ... shame on you and you deserved to be cheated. take the time to read nicks (KM5FL) note. he did it right. asked a lot of questions. dan craftily avoided the questions and nick did the smart thing... saw the red flags and walked away.. obviously dan is a c'ber selling burned out junk to hams who think they are going to get something for nothing. who in the heck buys from a knucklehead crook who advertises "estate sale, looks good, cant test, sold as is" translated into english..."i have this burned out piece of junk and i am looking for a fool to buy it and cheat them" lou, you learned a valuable lesson... time to stop whinning like a girl.. best regards paul w8jn
Are you high? Get real, buddy! This fellow was shafted on a sale and the amplifier at BEST was completely misrepresented as it was told to be a SB-221 when in reality it was NOT. I cannot believe people sometimes. This IS eBay mentality and this fellow should be ashamed of selling a DOA amplifier as something it was NOT - as in an SB-221 when it was really an SB-220. That is grounds for a refund if ever I have heard one.

kf9z
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:04 pm

Re: lou, take note of the new post in feedback

Post by kf9z » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:21 am

w8jn wrote:lou... you did good warning the ham community. please note my post in the feedback forum. 73 paul w8jn
Then why did you call his comments 'pitiful" and claimed he was 'whining'? Why the change of heart? What about some compassion for a fellow ham who was screwed by another ham selling junk that was not only the incorrect amplifier but complete junk and I suspect he knew it was junk before he sold it.

Blame the buyer and not the seller - always a classy approach, eh?

KM5FL
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:30 am
Location: Texas, USA

Post by KM5FL » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:47 am

This thread has been haunting me since I first read Lou's opening post.. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing.. You see, Lou is a VERY GOOD friend of mine and friends stick together through thick and thin. I've known Lou for about 10 years, and I know him well enough to know that he trusts people almost to a fault.. He's of the old school that believes that all who hold an Amateur Radio license are members of a brotherhood.. A brotherhood that looks out for one another and the individual members of this brotherhood would never cheat another member.. Lou can't conceive another ham cheating him or being dishonest with him.. Dan hurt Lou in ways some people will not or cannot know or understand..

Lou's only mistake in this was being so trusting and not asking questions about the amp.. He DOES NOT deserve the treatment he received from Dan or some of the others posting on this thread.. What has come out of all this is that Lou will now scrutinize everything and everyone he deals with. That is not always a good trait in a person. Because of one rotten apple getting in Lou's barrel, the good people along with the bad people will now have to pass his scrutiny.. That's a good thing for Lou, but from now on some people won't get to see the kind, honest, and giving side of Lou..

Dan, you have offended and cheated a good friend of mine and in doing so, you have done the same thing to me... I can't use the words I feel towards you because Scott doesn't allow personal attacks..


KM5FL

W1QJ
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Post by W1QJ » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:25 pm

Gentlemen, I appreciate all the nice things said about me, but since this incident here is something that happened just the other day. I fellow offered an SB-220 for sale here. Ad said, SB-220 no tubes good for parts. $125.00, The ad is vauge, I could have just bought it with no questions asked and got a decent pair of tubes sockets and some parts. The HV and filament transformers could have been bad? Because I asked a few questions about what may be good or bad with it, I lost the sale. Just wanted a better idea of what parts may have been good or bad. SO protecting myself with the questions that some said I should ask about a sale, I LOST IT. No big deal, back to the deal with Dan W4XXL, his defense is he "knew nothing about the amp". 99% of the time if I sell soemthing, I KNOW the condition to a great extent and price it accordingly. IF I sell something I don't know anything about and I want a fair price for it, I'll sell it with the intention that if there is a problem I will make it right or take it back. If I sell it so cheap that the price may reflect a non working item, then it was priced accordingly. Wouldn't it be a terrible thing here on QTH if every item someone sold was sold as "I know nothing about it, but I want full price for it, but if it's no good, tough luck, no returns. Either none of would buy anything here or else we all would be gamblimg with our hard earned money. That's why I call that the EBAY mentality. I maintain we hold a higher standard here.

W0AKG
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Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:36 pm

SB-220

Post by W0AKG » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:08 pm

It's almost like buying a 3-500Z from Lou and you have to blow on it to see the date code as Lou stated over the telephone, Oh Well.

KC8VWM
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Post by KC8VWM » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:46 pm

I am not defending anyone here but why in the world would anyone purchase something on the internet without:

1. See'ing actual photographs of the item in question. (This is usually far cheaper than shipping the item across the country for inspection.)

2. Without asking any pertinant questions related to the item they are purchasing. (These questions can STILL be asked even if the seller happens to be a blind monkey that never sucessfully turned on a light switch before.)

3.Agree to enter into an agreement to purchase the item in "as is" condition without any knowledge or anything at all about the item they are buying. ??

Just because the seller claims they "don't know anything" about the item they are selling doesn't somehow relieve you from the responsibility of asking "the right questions" or , requesting detailed photographs etc.

In my expewrience, I find that those sellers that have "something to hide" are going to be the individuals who don't own or have access to a digital camera.

It's one thing "not to know anything" and it's another thing to avoid or to refuse to send any photographs of the item for sale.

In which case, it's best to just move along...

Buying something "as is" is just that. It doesn't imply anything on it's own. In fact, it may very well be the "uneducated seller" thinks they are selling an HF amplifier that actually turns out to be converted and now functions as a microwave oven instead.

Taking assumed risks usually results in unexpected consequences.

73 de Charles - KC8VWM

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