Deadbeats/Non-Payers

Share information regarding your recently completed deals with other ham operators. ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with the transaction can post in this forum. If you have a report of a scam by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead.
Forum rules
As of Dec 9, 2013: ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with a transaction can post here. Do not post replies in any topic if you are not the buyer or seller in the transaction being discussed! If you believe you can help the buyer or seller, please use the Private Message system to communicate with them. NOTE: if you have been scammed by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead. See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136 for additional rules.
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Jackh
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:05 pm

Deadbeats/Non-Payers

Post by Jackh » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:16 pm

Over the last weeks I have 'sold' 3 items. 2 were packaged and ready to ship. 1 item was for out of the country. I estimated the shipping cost and the deal was consummated. Many days later, after several e-mails, I was finally told that it was too expensive. The other 2 items I was told [payment is on the way and... nada. Not even an reply to "just wanted to tell you payment never arrived'

Any way, is this happening a lot to you guys? This has happened more times than I care to mention. Yes, I have forgotten and been late in making payment myself but I never failed to respond back.

Anybody interested in creating and sharing a list of names that fail to make payment and/or not bother to tell you they changed their mind?

VE3TMT
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:50 am

Post by VE3TMT » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:56 pm

I thought that was what this forum area was for???

AD5VJ
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:26 am
Contact:

Post by AD5VJ » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:02 pm

[quote="ve3tmt"]I thought that was what this forum area was for???[/quote]

I think he means lets compile a list rather than have to read thru the whole forum or search for the call sign or name each time.

Not a bad idea but not sure it is feasible/

bob ad5vj

Jackh
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:05 pm

deadbeats

Post by Jackh » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:38 pm

That's what I am thinking. It would be nice if there was some way an ongoing list could be posted. I'm talking about the small group of inconsiderates who commit then slither off into never never land keeping you on hold for weeks.

K4ICL
Posts: 663
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 1:07 pm
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:

Maybe not...

Post by K4ICL » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:16 pm

There is no way to create and publish such a list without without errors. The source of the data is imperfect so the list will be imperfect and would quickly become a legal liability for the creator/publisher.

Everything would be great until the wrong person was listed. The publisher could then suffer the cost of going to court and explaining how he defamed and harmed an honest ham by placing his call sign on the "bad hams" list.

I wouldn't matter if that ham's call sign was added to the list accidentally. The publisher could still suffer the, humility, and financial burden caused by publishing the listing error. The risk of being wrong is too great.

Some may recall there was a web site dedicated to rating ham traders. I no longer see it active so, apparently, It has gone away. It would be nice to know why. If anyone has that story please share it.

Remember, you can always use the powerful search feature of this Forum to locate any potential ham calls of interest.

K4ICL

kk9a
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:06 pm
Location: Midland, NC

Deadbeats/Non-Payers

Post by kk9a » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:52 pm

There is no way to publish a list or even search for ham calls in the Feedback Forum if they are never included in the post . The callsign should also appear in the topic. Also, it would probably add credibility if the author would display their callsign.

KC4GMY
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:24 am
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Post by KC4GMY » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:09 pm

I have never done this but it has happened to me many times in the past. I don't let it bother me nor begrudge anyone at all for it.

As a sense of honor and a courtesty to the buyer, I have backed out of selling a couple of items that I have found to be defective (I test everything I sell before packing.) before shipping. Of course I e-mailed them to let them know!

I have learned that a sale is not final until the money is in your hand. Maybe the peson has suffered severe a medical issue or family emergency. Under these circumstances, the last thing on that person's mind would be dealing with a transaction. Who can know the reasons?

No matter the reason, if a transaction fails, I will just sell it to someone else later. There is really no sense in worrying about something that is so trivial and inconsequential. If you think deeply about it, it's not so important.

kb9vxq
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:38 am
Location: central illinois

Re: Deadbeats/Non-Payers

Post by kb9vxq » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:04 am

kk9a wrote:There is no way to publish a list or even search for ham calls in the Feedback Forum if they are never included in the post . The callsign should also appear in the topic. Also, it would probably add credibility if the author would display their callsign.
This raises a very good point that I've thought about before. Allmost anytime you look on this forum you can find someone posting like the one that is on there now from some guy that goes by Rebel and says John Meyers is a great guy. That's all well and good but just who the heck are John Meyers and Rebel in the ham world?

KI4G
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Post by KI4G » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:46 pm

This is why I like PayPal. If I am buying I send payment immediatley and you never have to worry if I am going to pay for it and if I am selling, I have payment before I ever package the item.

I know PayPal has it's flaws but it sure does make things convenient.

Bob

KU4MY
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:24 am
Location: Anderson, SC
Contact:

Post by KU4MY » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:52 am

KI4G wrote:This is why I like PayPal. If I am buying I send payment immediatley and you never have to worry if I am going to pay for it and if I am selling, I have payment before I ever package the item.

I know PayPal has it's flaws but it sure does make things convenient.

Bob
It makes it more than convenient Bob, it offers the seller and buyer both protection from each other and is rather a reasonable price to pay for a bit of security fo rthe seller and buyer. For example, you have a rig to offer at a reasonable price, let's say rig X. You want to make $200 off of rig X as a seller. You know PayPal will be about $6, so, just sell it for $206. You are protected, your buyer is protected, plain and simple.

Cheap skates that refuse to offer it as a payment option are the ones that ultimately lose out on a potential sale. Or, does it intimidate sellers who receive instant payment because they are expected to actually ship the product in a timely fashion?

You surely know how horrific it was to send things from and recieve things via USPS into the SC upstate twenty years ago. Now, I doubt that those long delays still exist anywhere as they did here in the mid 1980's (NOT!!!), but usually when someone wants to sell something, they are wanting to sell it for monetary gain, not to 'help out a new ham' and inversely, when someone buys something, they expect to receive it before they are too old to enjoy it.

Also, as some sellers are quite eager to receive their funds and fate ends up catching up with us all. When you spy something you like and wish to pay for it then and there, it's pretty much a done deal after a minor swap of a few emails. I made a recent purchase offered here and before I could stand in line for 45 minutes and buy a postal money order the next day, my father passed and taking care of my family crisis seemed to take priority over trying to find a way to get back on to here via the internet and contact the seller (my parents, or now I should say my mother, has no internet / computer in their home) and let him know what has happened. Upon my return and in my absense had received a note essentially saying, 'Where is my money!?', I responded, telling the seller what had happened and explained his payment via postal money order would be sent tomorrow (as it was a Sunday night when I returned home). Not so much as a 'Okay, thanks, sorry to hear that' out of the seller, just a one liner a week later saying, 'Payment received, item shipped.'

Gee, kinda makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it?

This is my only 'bad' experience here so far, and I hope it's the last bad one too as many of us enjoy doing a bit of swapping and trading. No, I take that back. I did buy a replacement microphone cable from a seller on here a few weeks ago who offered replacement mic cords with RJ45 connectors on each end for the newer crappy Icom rigs and maybe others use them too I guess. Anyway, I get this 'thing' in the mail that is a 4 conductor mic cord terminated at random to 8 position RJ45s. I sent the guy a message essentially saying, 'Hey, it's only $7, but, if you have a ton of these, you may wish to stop selling them before you find a not so understanding buyer as I.....' He didn't even grace my 'heads up' with so much as a reply..... creep..... Anyway, that's my rant Bob. One thing is for sure..... make that two things:
1) I can't spell
2) Even hams can be crappy people
:roll:
73 de Tom, KU4MY

n7anl
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:48 am

deadbeat buyers

Post by n7anl » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:23 am

KC4GMY wrote:I have never done this but it has happened to me many times in the past. I don't let it bother me nor begrudge anyone at all for it.

(some snipped)

I have learned that a sale is not final until the money is in your hand. Maybe the peson has suffered severe a medical issue or family emergency. Under these circumstances, the last thing on that person's mind would be dealing with a transaction. Who can know the reasons?

No matter the reason, if a transaction fails, I will just sell it to someone else later. There is really no sense in worrying about something that is so trivial and inconsequential. If you think deeply about it, it's not so important.
-------------------------
My reply:

While I compliment you for your sensitivity and deferring to the rare possibility that some REAL reason did pop up for a buyer who has backed out, and I agree with you we should be considerate for that rare case, I think the point was also missed here.

Someone gave their WORD to buy your item. To me, this is in fact the same as a PROMISE, and an obligation on their part, a commitment they (or you) have made to the seller.

A guy used the same comment on me once, a few days after he made the promise to buy my radio. And he threw in the same little quip -- "a sale is not final until the money is in your hand..." After he had made a DEFINITE "Yes I will send you the MO today", he just backed out and told me so a couple days later. This after I had spent an hour online eliminating all my ads on the various swap pages.

And I guess I should qualify this, with the theme of this thread. This sort of thing, that is, the BUYER backing out of a PROMISE to buy your item, AFTER making the commitment, AND exchanging the address info, AND saying he/she will send the payment right out -- HAPPENS a LOT these days. Why? I don't know, but it's happened to me many times in the last year or two.

The guy I was telling you about a minute ago, had NO excuse. After 2 days with me expecting his payment, he wrote to say, "I want a different radio I've decided," and then he added his joking little quip, "a sale is not final until the money is in your hand..."

I say, BS...

Now, had he said, "oh so sorry, my mother is bedridden and she had to be taken to the hospital and I needed the extra money for that, instead of your radio, I CERTAINLY would not have minded at all. And I would have silently ate any unhappiness I had about losing the sale, and wished him and his mother well, and that would be that.

But under normal circumstances, when you tell someone, "I will buy it" and then follow through with getting their address, and giving you theirs, and promising to send the payment out in the next day or so, THAT is YOUR WORD and your commitment.

Follow it. Its part of what binds us together in this hobby.
Last edited by n7anl on Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

n7anl
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:48 am

Post by n7anl » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:18 am

KU4MY wrote:
KI4G wrote:This is why I like PayPal. If I am buying I send payment immediatley and you never have to worry if I am going to pay for it and if I am selling, I have payment before I ever package the item.

I know PayPal has it's flaws but it sure does make things convenient.

Bob
It makes it more than convenient Bob, it offers the seller and buyer both protection from each other and is rather a reasonable price to pay for a bit of security fo rthe seller and buyer. For example, you have a rig to offer at a reasonable price, let's say rig X. You want to make $200 off of rig X as a seller. You know PayPal will be about $6, so, just sell it for $206. You are protected, your buyer is protected, plain and simple.

Cheap skates that refuse to offer it as a payment option are the ones that ultimately lose out on a potential sale. Or, does it intimidate sellers who receive instant payment because they are expected to actually ship the product in a timely fashion?

You surely know how horrific it was to send things from and recieve things via USPS into the SC upstate twenty years ago. Now, I doubt that those long delays still exist anywhere as they did here in the mid 1980's (NOT!!!), but usually when someone wants to sell something, they are wanting to sell it for monetary gain, not to 'help out a new ham' and inversely, when someone buys something, they expect to receive it before they are too old to enjoy it.

Also, as some sellers are quite eager to receive their funds and fate ends up catching up with us all. When you spy something you like and wish to pay for it then and there, it's pretty much a done deal after a minor swap of a few emails. I made a recent purchase offered here and before I could stand in line for 45 minutes and buy a postal money order the next day, my father passed and taking care of my family crisis seemed to take priority over trying to find a way to get back on to here via the internet and contact the seller (my parents, or now I should say my mother, has no internet / computer in their home) and let him know what has happened. Upon my return and in my absense had received a note essentially saying, 'Where is my money!?', I responded, telling the seller what had happened and explained his payment via postal money order would be sent tomorrow (as it was a Sunday night when I returned home). Not so much as a 'Okay, thanks, sorry to hear that' out of the seller, just a one liner a week later saying, 'Payment received, item shipped.'

Gee, kinda makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it?

This is my only 'bad' experience here so far, and I hope it's the last bad one too as many of us enjoy doing a bit of swapping and trading. No, I take that back. I did buy a replacement microphone cable from a seller on here a few weeks ago who offered replacement mic cords with RJ45 connectors on each end for the newer crappy Icom rigs and maybe others use them too I guess. Anyway, I get this 'thing' in the mail that is a 4 conductor mic cord terminated at random to 8 position RJ45s. I sent the guy a message essentially saying, 'Hey, it's only $7, but, if you have a ton of these, you may wish to stop selling them before you find a not so understanding buyer as I.....' He didn't even grace my 'heads up' with so much as a reply..... creep..... Anyway, that's my rant Bob. One thing is for sure..... make that two things:
1) I can't spell
2) Even hams can be crappy people
:roll:
-----------------------
my reply follows your quote:

"... Cheap skates that refuse to offer it as a payment option are the ones that ultimately lose out on a potential sale. Or, does it intimidate sellers who receive instant payment because they are expected to actually ship the product in a timely fashion? ..."

>> Ouch. Where did that barb come from?

So are you saying anyone who doesn't offer to accept paypal in their ad, or for their item, that there's something wrong and suspicious about them? AND that they are cheap skates.

Back the truck up...

I see a lot of this same attitude from what I gave begun to call "Ebay-Only ads on the ham swap pages" -- equipment ad posters who think that Ebay is some sort of "more secured" way to sell their goodies, therefore they won't list their goodies on the ham swap pages like QTH, QRZ and EHAM, but INSTEAD will send you to their ebay page link.

And they tell you, "Please go to my Ebay rating, it shows how happy everyone is with my service."

When someone tells me about how good their ebay rating is, I just ignore it. That's because I don't respect ebay anymore. And I don't trust someone "more" because they use it. I don't trust them "less" either. Far more fraud and discontented sales occur on Ebay -- by percentage -- than happen here on these ham swap pages...

When you question this process with them, (why they didn't just post their items right here on these "ham swap pages like QTH, etc" (as well as on ebay, if they wish) they tell you, "oh, well, if you want to bid on my item, just follow the link to my ebay ad" -- without even realizing, god forbid, SOME people DON'T use ebay, WON'T use ebay or CAN'T use ebay -- or Paypal either. They tell you how "Paypal is safer for everybody", and "ebay is the better way to list your goodies", and "hey, you 'might' even get a better deal buying through my ebay ad".

Right, and you "might" win the big one some night in Las Vegas...

Fine, but WHY did the guy list his "Ebay only ad" ON the private ham swap pages like QTH, QRZ or EHAM -- if his item was NOT REALLY AVAILABLE through those same swap pages? Because he wanted the "free advertising" for his commercial ebay ad, riding it on the backs of the private hams who work hard every day, probably for free, building and maintaining these fine, and private, ham swap page for all the rest of us...

Sorry, I got off on a sidetrack.

---
While I can see how Paypal might speed up the process of payment, and might even help secure a sale (by getting someone to pay up before they can change their mind), this does NOT mean there is something "wrong" with those people who can't use Paypal, or choose not to.

>> Just because someone doesn't USE paypal, or OFFER it in their ads, or accept it period -- they are NOT cheap skates and they are not "questionable" -- nor are they "worried" about shipping their item "in a timely fashion".

How rude for you to suggest that.

Most of our grand parents were far more honest than many people today are. They often lived by a trusted clause and a dear and personal belief: "Never trust a banker or his bank." They (meaning the banks & bankers, their credit cards, checks, or their inflationary floating currencies, and not to forget 'wall street' either !), are no safer or more honorable institutions today than they were in 1929 or any other year, and neither are their "financial instruments" (like Paypal, for example).

Gee, and I'm not even an "old timer"... At least not yet !

KC4GMY
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:24 am
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Post by KC4GMY » Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:06 am

My thoughts on PayPal:

PayPal is fine so long as a person is not lured into opening a Premier or Business account (Unless of course that person has a business.) and have the fees applied.

A lot of people have the misconception that PayPal always charges a percentage - not true. If a person has a Personal account and limit their monthly transactions to $500, the transactions are free. This limited amount will usually suffice for most people. People needing to use PayPal for larger amounts will have to upgrade to a Premier or Business account.

One should refuse to take PayPal from accounts drawn off credit cards. Why would anyone use a credit card to open a Personal PayPal account? Well, that is a real head scratcher...

Finally, PayPal is pro-seller. They are far more likely to protect the seller than the buyer because sellers are their bread and butter.

n7anl
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:48 am

Post by n7anl » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:49 pm

KC4GMY wrote:My thoughts on PayPal:

PayPal is fine so long as a person is not lured into opening a Premier or Business account (Unless of course that person has a business.) and have the fees applied.

A lot of people have the misconception that PayPal always charges a percentage - not true. If a person has a Personal account and limit their monthly transactions to $500, the transactions are free. This limited amount will usually suffice for most people. People needing to use PayPal for larger amounts will have to upgrade to a Premier or Business account.

One should refuse to take PayPal from accounts drawn off credit cards. Why would anyone use a credit card to open a Personal PayPal account? Well, that is a real head scratcher...

Finally, PayPal is pro-seller. They are far more likely to protect the seller than the buyer because sellers are their bread and butter.
-----------------------
my reply:

Good info, I guess, for those who do use paypal. I won't use any paypal or other online payment schemes.

Your last comment hits the nail on the head -- Paypal, AND Ebay, are always PRO-SELLER, and pro-themselves of course. The least-served is you the buyer. And please folks, don't patronize me with comments about how Ebay makes every effort "to protect everyone". I'm sure in those "extreme fraud" cases, they DO, but for the most part, the SELLER is the guy they will believe first. I don't want to hear stories how "ebay took care of me". Not interested.

I prefer these ham swap pages, run by hams, for hams.
.

KU4MY
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:24 am
Location: Anderson, SC
Contact:

Post by KU4MY » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:22 am

n7anl wrote:So are you saying anyone who doesn't offer to accept paypal in their ad, or for their item, that there's something wrong and suspicious about them? AND that they are cheap skates.

Back the truck up...
No, Richard, if I had intended to say that, that is what I would have said. Oddly enough, for a four lander I can be articulate at times. Honestly, I really do have my moments. :roll:

I would never want QTH.com to become like eBay or even QRZ's forum boards for that matter. It's great that such a medium exists for us to be able to buy, sell, trade or swap here. However, if you scan the ads, you will see that there are those of us here who are either trying to rook people out of money, scam people as the security offered by eBay and PayPal, for example, do not exist here.

Everything I have seen here is offered in, or at least guised as good faith offerings. If you read the feedback forums, you will see that is not always the case and sure, if I were to purchase a rig from you for say $1,200 with an additional $60 for insured shipping and nothing shows up at my door after a month, I would like to have the opportunity to seek reimbursement from PayPal....... plain and simple I thought, but there are those of us who try to add a little or inject some drama into what others have said. :twisted:
73 de Tom, KU4MY

KU4MY
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:24 am
Location: Anderson, SC
Contact:

Post by KU4MY » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:57 am

KC4GMY wrote:My thoughts on PayPal:

PayPal is fine so long as a person is not lured into opening a Premier or Business account (Unless of course that person has a business.) and have the fees applied.

A lot of people have the misconception that PayPal always charges a percentage - not true. If a person has a Personal account and limit their monthly transactions to $500, the transactions are free. This limited amount will usually suffice for most people. People needing to use PayPal for larger amounts will have to upgrade to a Premier or Business account.

One should refuse to take PayPal from accounts drawn off credit cards. Why would anyone use a credit card to open a Personal PayPal account? Well, that is a real head scratcher...

Finally, PayPal is pro-seller. They are far more likely to protect the seller than the buyer because sellers are their bread and butter.
Gee, and that would be because all of the auction fees on eBay and the eft fees on PayPal are paid by whom? eBay pretty well sucks, but, if you are an honest seller and you have something that you would like to be rid of, after waiting for a reply to an ad here or on QRZ as well as eHam and etc., eBay does seem to move the unmovable.

There is no argument that QTH is the top dog and the most desired way for those of us who are obviously here and reading these posts to trade and swap and sell our ‘stuff’ and then to buy new ‘stuff’.

There are a lot of us who even go so far as to actually ship an item, on buyer approval before any cash exchanges hands (except for shipping and insurance, obviously and all of that up front by the potential seller). Try that on eBay and you may as well kiss your package good bye because you will never see it or the money again.

Ehhh, never mind, I lost my rose colored glasses years ago, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink and, of course, we all know you can’t teach a pig to dance, you’ll wear yourself out and annoy the pig so, I am sure we will just continue along as we have always done in the past. If you want it badly enough, you will accept the sellers terms, if you don’t like them, you will try to convince him to do otherwise, if you can’t do that, you will learn to do without, plain and simple.

There are bad people out there, they will take your stuff. If you aren’t careful, they will do more than that. Just try to play safe, use your head and remember, it’s all good fun until someone gets their eye put out.

Anyway, the buyer must always be careful as you said, it's a sellers market, it is that way because the seller is eBay and PayPal's customer, the seller always pays all of the fees so as long as those who can understand that simple truth that you and I know, they will also not get burned.
73 de Tom, KU4MY

n7anl
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:48 am

"Ebay-ONLY" ads placed on the Ham Swap pages:

Post by n7anl » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:22 pm

Kind of a NEW post but tied to some parts of this discussion:

N7ANL quote (I'm now adding comments to my own previous quote. Here's the previous quote):

"... Fine, but WHY did the guy list his "Ebay only ad" ON the private ham swap pages like QTH, QRZ or EHAM -- if his item was NOT REALLY AVAILABLE through those same swap pages? Because he wanted the "free advertising" for his commercial ebay ad, riding it on the backs of the private hams who work hard every day, probably for free, building and maintaining these fine, and private, ham swap page for all the rest of us ... "

------------------------
So here's a precise example in today's QTH classifieds that I'm talking about:

YAESU FT-897 HF/VHF/UHF All-Mode XCVR
Visit ebay and check out item # 320086305002 for a Yaesu FT-897. This is a 24 hr auction that will end Sunday morning. "BUY-IT-NOW" feature in effect at a great price. Good luck and thanks for visiting.
Listing #582026 - Submitted on 02/24/07 by Callsign N6SIX

------------------------

Here's an ad for an Ebay item (which is a commercial site) that does NOT allow you to buy the item HERE & NOW on QTH. Sure, anyone who can or wishes to, can go to Ebay and start bidding. But what if you CAN'T or WON'T do Ebay? Kind of exclusionary if you ask me.

So you say, well that's just sour grapes.

My point however is his AD is POSTED HERE on QTH. Why isn't the item AVAILABLE here?

Is this not simply "free advertising" for a NOT-AVAILABLE-HERE Ebay ad?
Of course it is.

And if you write the person, and politely ask if they could Edit or restructure their ad so their item is ALSO available here to the hams on THIS Ham Swap page, a few will do so but most will balk and say "go to my Ebay listing and buy it there".

Then you write back and politely suggest to them that "perhaps some people do not or can not do ebay", and all you are asking them to do is to INCLUDE in their QTH (or QRZ or EHAM) ads:
(1) a basic price or "best offer",
(2) the ham's contact info like a phone number or email, and
(3) make the unit available to any buyer who wants it, here & now.
(4) And a comment added that says, "A simple EDIT of your ad will make the item available to hams here as well, and everyone will be better off for it."

Usually then the person just ignores your request, content with their initial scheme to place their "Ebay-ONLY ad" for free advertising on these Ham Swap pages.

Maybe it's just me, but I am really bothered by this on our ham swap pages.
I say, if you post the ad here, you make the item available here & now too, simple as that.

Rick

n7anl
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:48 am

security of 'ebay' and 'paypal' services:

Post by n7anl » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:53 pm

KU4MY wrote:
n7anl wrote:So are you saying anyone who doesn't offer to accept paypal in their ad, or for their item, that there's something wrong and suspicious about them? AND that they are cheap skates.

Back the truck up...
(your reply):
No, Richard, if I had intended to say that, that is what I would have said. Oddly enough, for a four lander I can be articulate at times. Honestly, I really do have my moments. :roll:

I would never want QTH.com to become like eBay or even QRZ's forum boards for that matter. It's great that such a medium exists for us to be able to buy, sell, trade or swap here. However, if you scan the ads, you will see that there are those of us here who are either trying to rook people out of money, scam people as the security offered by eBay and PayPal, for example, do not exist here.

Everything I have seen here is offered in, or at least guised as good faith offerings. If you read the feedback forums, you will see that is not always the case and sure, if I were to purchase a rig from you for say $1,200 with an additional $60 for insured shipping and nothing shows up at my door after a month, I would like to have the opportunity to seek reimbursement from PayPal....... plain and simple I thought, but there are those of us who try to add a little or inject some drama into what others have said. :twisted:
-----------------------
My reply:

Okay, well sorry if I got a little dramatic sounding. If you go back and reread your words, it did "sound like" you gave only 2 answers for people who don't or won't or can't use Paypal for payments:

"... Cheap skates that refuse to offer it as a payment option are the ones that ultimately lose out on a potential sale. Or, does it intimidate sellers who receive instant payment because they are expected to actually ship the product in a timely fashion? ..."
---
You called people who refuse to offer Paypal as a payment option, are "cheap skates". Sorry if I interpreted this to mean you meant "non-paypalers are cheap" -- and perhaps they are trying to "skate on some responsibility or another". And you then suggested the sellers who don't accept Paypal might be intimidated because they now have to "ship the product in a timely fashion". So maybe I was wrong in what you meant, but it did sound like a 'barb' against non-paypalers...

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Anyway -- while I agree there are some unsatisfactory transactions between hams on these ham swap pages, there aren't that many compared to what happens on ebay. The entire design of ebay's system is PROTECTIVE of the seller as others stated, and my own experience is ebay will rarely step in to help a dis-satified BUYER -- unless, as you mentioned, its a case of outright fraud. In those cases, I'm sure ebay will help out the buyers, if they can.

But it's all those GREY AREA cases where they won't help the buyer, and there are MANY, probably even millions of such cases of "dis-satisfied buyers", who can't get satisfaction because of all the "defensive" wordings in the seller's ads, AND because Ebay gives preferrential treatment to the sellers.

Here on the Ham Swap pages we expect "some" accountability between each other. We work on a "one on one" basis, but we have lots of hams in the background who will give some moral support and keep a watch on those few who seriously abuse our mutual trust.

No, its not a perfect world. But IMHO, its better we hams work on that one-on-one level, than it is to trust a global marketing corporation who really does NOT do that great a job of protecting "all" their clients, especially those millions of "grey area dis-satisfied buyer" clients. And -- they built it that way...

I grew up in the 4-land too, btw. 8~)
Rick

KU4MY
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:24 am
Location: Anderson, SC
Contact:

Post by KU4MY » Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:03 am

There is one thing that a lot of people don't realize or don't want to do (I guess some of us may actually eek out our existences through radio sales and what not), is there is still the option to the eBay seller to pull or end the auction early if they have been made an offer from a potential buyer that contacts them regarding their ad posted here. I'm not a pessimist, but, I am sure that doesn't happen very often, but that option is there.

The lists of hammy classified ads are abundant and you have no doubt seen items posted here and on eBay that are posted in a half dozen other places on the interweb too.

Some of us tend to go for the 'Full Monty' on free advertising apparently.
73 de Tom, KU4MY

n7anl
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:48 am

"Ebay Only" Ads on QTH, QRZ & Eham

Post by n7anl » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:27 pm

I don't mind if someone derives their living or any small part of it on ebay or anywhere else. But the "Ebay Only" ad that is placed on here is another story.

You are right -- there is the "Sale outside of Ebay before the auction ends" clause ebay sellers can use. Of course Ebay really pushes the idea you should not advertise the same items elsewhere, thus trying to make Ebay the "exclusive provider". BUT at least for our ham community, every Ebay listing of ham equipment ought to have this mentioned so they can sell their goodie on here, for example. And their ebay ads ON QTH, QRZ & EHAM ought to provide:
~ basic contact info
~ a decent description of the item(s)
~ a fixed or "best offer" price
~ and state the items are available anytime the buyer is ready, prior to the auction ending.

My issue, and this is my own personal opinion, is simply:

~ IF you post your radio or item ON QTH, QRZ or EHAM, mentioning your Ebay ad and providing a link to Ebay, you MUST, I repeat, you MUST make the radio available here on these ham swap pages. It IS why those pages are here, and to not do so, is rude.

This is my own opinion. And it makes more sense than any other 8~)
:wink:

Seriously though, if someone posts their ham gear on Ebay, but 'somehow' thinks it's also "OK" to also USE these ham swap pages for your "Ebay Only" free advertising -- PLEASE DON'T. It's a slap in the face of those hams who work hard to provide these ham swap pages, AND the rest of the ham community who might want to buy your radios & goodies HERE -- on QTH.com.

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