What to do What to do?

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ab7r
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:42 pm
Location: Oak Harbor, WA

What to do What to do?

Post by ab7r »

Looking for some thoughts on what I should do about this - if anything.

I sold an Icom PS125 power supply and shipped it on Dec. 5th. Never heard back from they buyer till today. He sent an email asking if I got his previous email about noise coming from the PS. Never got a previous email but who knows.

I used the power supply with a ProII I had and it worked perfectly....made no noise at all and with a full 100W load.

The buyer should have received it around the 8th....maybe the 11th if UPS was really slow. And today I hear about this. If it were not for that and the fact that I know it worked fine (and was very well packed for shipping) I wouldn't have a reason to speculate.

One time in the past I sold something that was mint to me and they buyer felt it was not quite mint under very careful scrutiny. We came to an agreement that we were both satisfied with. But on this I'm just not sure.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Tnx
Greg
AB7R
K4ICL
Posts: 663
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 1:07 pm
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:

Need to know more abou the the noise...

Post by K4ICL »

Greg:

It is not clear from your posting whether the noise is sound coming from the power supply when the fan is running or if it is signal noise being picked up by his receiver.

If it is fan noise, it is normal for that power supply and is the reason I sold the one I had. I don't like the loud fan noise.

If it is noise being injected into his received signal, he might not have his rig properly grounded or there may be some other problem. A scope across the output would show if it is clean or not.

Anyway, what is the nature of the noise?

Cheers,

AL
ab7r
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:42 pm
Location: Oak Harbor, WA

PS125 noise

Post by ab7r »

He says its a hig-pitched noise that increases as more load is placed on it. He thinks it may be a capacitor going out. But it was dead quiet when I used it.

Tnx
Greg
KM5FL
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:30 am
Location: Texas, USA

Post by KM5FL »

Here's what I'd do.. Have him return the power supply with the stipulation that you want to check it out. Most power supplies aren't difficult to repair. Either check it yourself if you have the capabilities, or have a qualified person check it for you.. If it indeed, has a problem, the technician can tell you if it is due to abuse or missuse. If it's a normal failure, ask the buyer if he would be satisfied with you paying to have it repaired.. If he's not happy with that, refund him his money... If there is no problem with the power supply, and it's in the same condition as when you sold it, write it off to "buyer's remorse" and refund his money...

I buy and sell a lot of stuff on this site and my reputation as an honest seller is worth way more than the price of a power supply..


KM5FL
K4ICL
Posts: 663
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 1:07 pm
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:

Post by K4ICL »

If there is no problem with the power supply, and it's in the same condition as when you sold it, write it off to "buyer's remorse" and refund his money...
This does not resolve the problem satisfactorily. While this approach is laudable, it totally fails to deal with the issue. Honest sellers, dealing in good faith, should not be required to support "buyers remorse" to protect their reputation.

If there truly is a problem with sold item, the buyer is responsible to find out exactly what the problem is convey that information to the seller in enough detail that the seller can decide if the buyer's complaint is accurate or not. It is NOT the seller's obligation to incur the cost of this inspection!

At a minimum, the buyer should have the item inspected/diagnosed by a qualified technician and convey a report of the results of that inspection to the seller.

If the buyer fails to do this, the seller is not obligated to waste his resources on the deal.

If the received report indicates there truly is a problem the honest seller will ask for the return of the item. Upon receipt of the item, it unaltered or damaged by the buyer, he would then refund the buyers initial payment, plus shipping both ways and any actual documented cost the seller incurred for the inspection.

Fair is fair...

My opinion...

K4ICL
KM5FL
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:30 am
Location: Texas, USA

Post by KM5FL »

This does not resolve the problem satisfactorily. While this approach is laudable, it totally fails to deal with the issue. Honest sellers, dealing in good faith, should not be required to support "buyers remorse" to protect their reputation.

If there truly is a problem with sold item, the buyer is responsible to find out exactly what the problem is convey that information to the seller in enough detail that the seller can decide if the buyer's complaint is accurate or not. It is NOT the seller's obligation to incur the cost of this inspection!

At a minimum, the buyer should have the item inspected/diagnosed by a qualified technician and convey a report of the results of that inspection to the seller.

If the buyer fails to do this, the seller is not obligated to waste his resources on the deal.

If the received report indicates there truly is a problem the honest seller will ask for the return of the item. Upon receipt of the item, it unaltered or damaged by the buyer, he would then refund the buyers initial payment, plus shipping both ways and any actual documented cost the seller incurred for the inspection.

Fair is fair...

My opinion...

K4ICL

I would never depend on the opinion of someone or some facility I'm not familiar with to "decide my fate". This is why most businesses require the customer to return a suspected defective item to them for diagnosis. Granted, most businesses require the customer to return the item to the manufacturer after the "in store" warranty period has expired, but this is limited to new items covered by a mfgr's warranty..

I stand by my policy --- Return the item to me and let me make the call. There's no " waste of resources" in testing the power supply with his personal radio. If the the power supply is not defective, return the guy's money and place it up for sale again...


KM5FL
K4ICL
Posts: 663
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 1:07 pm
Location: Greenville, SC
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Huh?

Post by K4ICL »

I would never depend on the opinion of someone or some facility I'm not familiar with to "decide my fate".
Huh? We do this every time we take our vehicle into Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, etc. for servicing, when we get a prescription filled, when we are in the hospital, when we use the services of a vet, get a haircut, get our air condition repaired, send our radio to Icom or Yaesu or Kenwood, etc. etc.

We depend on the services of qualified professionals every day. This is no different. The key ingredient is QUALIFIED. It does not matter if a qualified service provider lives in the buyer's area or the seller's area.

K4ICL
k5jn
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:18 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Post by k5jn »

The noise in the PS125 is probably the fan that comes on after the PS125 warms up. Some of the PS125's do it and not everyone can hear it. I'm pretty sure there is nothing else in the PS125 to cause it. These are very fine supplies other than fan noise on some. The only cure is a new fan and hope that cures it or....KK5DR has a mod to slow the fan down by adding a resistor in the fan power lead which can be found here: http://www.kk5dr.com/PS-125.html
ab7r
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:42 pm
Location: Oak Harbor, WA

PS125 Fan

Post by ab7r »

Are these 12vdc fans? Do you happen to know what size? If so, I should be able to find an excellent quiet computer fan to replace it with.

Tnx
Greg
KM5FL
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:30 am
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Huh?

Post by KM5FL »

K4ICL wrote:
I would never depend on the opinion of someone or some facility I'm not familiar with to "decide my fate".
Huh? We do this every time we take our vehicle into Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, etc. for servicing, when we get a prescription filled, when we are in the hospital, when we use the services of a vet, get a haircut, get our air condition repaired, send our radio to Icom or Yaesu or Kenwood, etc. etc.

We depend on the services of qualified professionals every day. This is no different. The key ingredient is QUALIFIED. It does not matter if a qualified service provider lives in the buyer's area or the seller's area.

K4ICL
Some people will do anything just to start a debate.. You and I both know I was referring to how I handle a situation concerning the subject of this thread. I used the term "I'm not familiar with."

However, your example just further validates my point.. The buyer has to follow the directions and policies of the seller UNTIL the warranty (or in this case, moral obligation) has runout...... At that point in the timeline, any discussions about who is responsible for what is beyond the scope of this thread..

I'm finished bickering on this post.. I've given my opinion to the originator of this thread, so I see no need for me to interject any further in this discussion..


KM5FL
ab7r
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:42 pm
Location: Oak Harbor, WA

Case Closed

Post by ab7r »

Just to close the issue....

Buyer returned the PS and I refunded his money. But I still cannot find anything wrong with it as it does not make any noise to me. I no longer have the ProII so have to wait for a local friend to get back from vacation to check it again under load. If it's fine, I'll just repost it.

Tnx
Greg
ab7r
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:42 pm
Location: Oak Harbor, WA

One last closing remark

Post by ab7r »

After getting the PS-125 returned from K9FBI, I plugged it in and it was quiet as a mouse...no noise at all. I did not have a rig available to test it under load since a friend with a ProIII is on vacation.

I ended up selling it to Nick, KM5FL. I sent him the power supply and we agreed on a price if there was now a problem under load (cosmetically it was also excellent). It was a low price in the event he had to fix something. I told him we could work out the payment after he had a chance to check it out. He got it and tested it out extensively and not surprisingly it worked just fine under full load. No "high-pitched" squeal. You could hear the fan when it kicked in but nothing objectionable that you would not expect. Since it indeed is in excellent condition, Nick offered $125 and is even helping with the shipping. This is what I sold it to K9FBI for.

So it seems like K9FBI just changed his mind for whatever reason and just wanted to return a perfectly running PS-125.

Thanks Nick for being a stand-up person and being honest about the condition of the PS-125. I would recommend you as an honest person to anyone I know.

73
Greg
AB7R
kk9a
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:06 pm
Location: Midland, NC

Re: One last closing remark

Post by kk9a »

ab7r wrote:
Thanks Nick for being a stand-up person and being honest about the condition of the PS-125. I would recommend you as an honest person to anyone I know.

73
Greg
AB7R
Greg, you too are an honest person for taking the item back under the assumption that something was wrong with it. Congratulations!
KM5FL
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:30 am
Location: Texas, USA

Post by KM5FL »

Greg and I exchanged several emails over a period of a few days. We discussed, Hurricane Rita, Mud holes, Kenwood, UPS, pigs, and we had a blast covering old ladies gossip subjects. . Boy did we have some enjoyable email "QSOs".. All I can say is, "you shoulda been there.."

I received the power supply very professionally packed double box style. Lots and lots of padding and enough tape to singlehandedly create an adhesive shortage. When I finally succeeded in extracting the power supply, it was flawless in appearance. He included every thing that came with it originally from the factory, including the black plastic tie wrap thingy used to contain any excess length of the AC power cord. I hooked the power supply up to my IC-746PRO and proceeded to "pour on the coal".. The power supply functioned 100% as designed by Icom. Virtually zero voltage drop even during 100 watt FM mode transmissions. Contrary to the PS-125's reputation for having a noisy fan, the cooling fan emits only a slight whisper as it gets rid of the heat..

K9FBI - If you're reading this, you sure missed out on a heck of a deal, but most important, you've probably missed out on being on Greg's friends list.

I have no doubt that if I ever see AB7R advertise something that I'm looking for, when he answers his phone, he'll hear me. Greg, I am honored in that I have met and become friends with you.

Folks, you can buy from Greg AB7R with no worries about the intregrity of his price, shipping, packing, descriptions, etc.. Just be sure your knife is sharp.. :) Greg likes tape.. :P

KM5FL
K9FBI
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:04 pm
Location: Oswego, Il.
Contact:

PS125

Post by K9FBI »

I had the PS 125 from Greg and it did make a noise like the high voltage leaking on a TV tube. It did it with no load when cold. It had nothing to do with the fan. I tried it several times over several days and the noise was always there. With a load the hiss or buzz was more noticeable. The noise was loudest from the back of the supply. Again I state it was not the fan. I listened to a friends PS125 and it made the same sound but very weak. I did some searches online and called Icom and they said that is a known problem. I did not change my mind about the supply. Greg sold it to me for a fair price. I just felt uncomfortable with it so I returned it to Greg and he was gracious to refund my money. I told him someone else may not hear the hiss and it sounds like that is what happened.
Everything worked out OK for all 3 parties involved.
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