the peoples court, you will decide this one your vote counts

Share information regarding your recently completed deals with other ham operators. ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with the transaction can post in this forum. If you have a report of a scam by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead.
Forum rules
As of Dec 9, 2013: ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with a transaction can post here. Do not post replies in any topic if you are not the buyer or seller in the transaction being discussed! If you believe you can help the buyer or seller, please use the Private Message system to communicate with them. NOTE: if you have been scammed by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead. See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136 for additional rules.
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

the peoples court, you will decide this one your vote counts

Post by w8jn »

THIS HAS BEEN RESOLVED. Thanks to all of you fellow hams who took part in Judge Wapners court:) You all know me and know that Ibelieve that a person only has his reputation and integrity. Good old Chris decided to cast aspersions on my honesty and integrity all the while I told him as soon as he placed the filter in my hand he would have his $$$ back. He jumped the gun, became impatient, publically questioned my honesty and then proceeded to email me numerous times daily with insults and whinning. My goal was to cause him as much aggravation as I could. I was successful and pleased with the result. Being the honest ham that I am, His money was refunded, however not before I soundly caused him as much stress and annoyance as I possibly could think of. Chris, as old John Daily used to say.... "You have been selected as Queen for a day" It's ok for a princess to whine :oops: :oops: :oops:

ad 518847 your vote will decide
sold a filter to a ham.shipped out instantly upon receipt of check. he claimed it didnt work. i offered full refund. he returned it to a different address than where he sent the check to. 6 weeks later i received the filter back. unnammed ham took the trusty soldering gun to it and "did some work to it". i have the filter back with extra solder and jumper wires. do i send him a refund or ship him back his fixed filter. you will make the decision. it's the peoples court hi.73 paul w8jn
VOTE HERE HIHI !!! :D

my email to the anonymous ham

chris, i have the filter, since you made the decision
to go public with this, please check out ad # 518858.
if you pull up my call under feedback you will find
that i have nothing but rave reviews. k7erq
and i just concluded a $5000 deal this week and have
swapped $40,000 in equip over the past 2 years. you
have mishandled this. please don't feel the need to
send any ultimatums or threats like reporting me to
the postal authorities. i do not respond to that kind
of nonsense. if you report me i will do the same to
you. as the ad states, we will let the ham community
decide who is correct on this one! good luck. 73
paul w8jn
Last edited by w8jn on Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

REPLY NUMBER 1VOTE IS 1-0 FOR W8JN

Post by w8jn »

You have received a response to your ad, titled "ad 518847 your vote
will decide", that you have running on the QTH.COM Free Ham Radio
Classified Ads.

The response is from:

Name: john feltz
Callsign: W9JN
E-mail: jfw9jn@tznet.com

The response is:

Hi Paul...send it back. If he is not upfront in giving full
communications to you and telling or at least suggesting it go to another ham for
evalulation, its his! I've seen your ads and you always are honest.
NICE CALL!! 73, John W9JN
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

VOTE #2 NEUTRAL STILL 1-0 FAVOR W8JN

Post by w8jn »

The response is from:

Name: Gordon McCleery
Callsign: W4GLM
E-mail: w4glm@starband.net

The response is:

Paul, if it were me..........

I would remove his "MODS" and see if the filter

was working.

If it worked properly I would return it to him and

let him know why, if it doesn't work after removal

of his mods, I would not bother and e-mail and

tell him why.....Mac
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

RESPONSE #3 FAVOR W8JN 2-0

Post by w8jn »

The response is from:

Name: Will Gallagher
Callsign: N8PYQ
E-mail: wjgallagher@comcast.net

The response is:

None of my business really, but interesting, and I am going to put in
my 2 cents worth. If he modded it he bought it .... YOU keep the money!
Doesn't get any simpler than that.

Will/N8PYQ
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

RESPONSE #4 3-0 FAVOR W8JN

Post by w8jn »

The response is from:

Name: William Klaus
Callsign: N0WK
E-mail: wklaus@lisco.net

The response is:

He own's it, if he altered it. You have yourself in quite a mess with
this fellow.
Bill
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

5-0 FAVOR W8JN

Post by w8jn »

The response is from:

Name: Sam Lanham
Callsign: W8VVE
E-mail: nwsam@ntelos.net

The response is:

Paul...had he returned the filter to you in the same condition that you
sent it...a refund wouuld be in order. However...if he "messed" with
the filter then its his...and I would simply return it to him. Sounds
like he tried to put the wrong filter into a rig...then get you to pay
for his flub-up. I sell filters now and then...and have gotten into the
habit of asking the person buying what rig they want to put it
in...trying to make sure we are both on the same page. But for me...
the bottom line is...if a person buys something from me and accepts
delivery...its his. Hope you
have a good week. 73...Sam W8VVE
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

it appears to be a slam dunk for w8jn

Post by w8jn »

Name: Richard Stark
Callsign: K7BON
E-mail: k7bon@juno.com

The response is:

Paul,
He's earned it and deserves it so:

SOCK IT TO HIM!

Dick K7BON
W4PIG
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 2:54 pm

Post by W4PIG »

PAUL SEND HIM THE FILTER BACK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
N0UA
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: Littleton, CO 80127

Refund?

Post by N0UA »

Short Answer: NO refund.

Long: If the filter were DOA, and the buyer had communicated that situation and returned the item - the refund issue would be in an entire different light.

Modifications of any kind to the purchased item would indeed invalidate any Warranty. See the warranty language of any electronics manufacturer.

However, does the filter currently operate to the specifications as it was before it was delivered? If so, does the modification devalue the item? If it does, then a amount equal to the devaluation would be appropriate. THIS PART is entirely at the discression of the seller!!! - see the short answer.....
N4AUS
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:58 am
Location: Land O Lakes, FL.
Contact:

My 2 Cents..

Post by N4AUS »

When I do a trade or a sale, I tell the buyer I don't consider the deal done until they tell me that the product meets their expectations. The buyer should do their homework and make sure of the product that they're buying. If for some reason that it's the wrong product for their application, then see if something can be worked out with the seller.
However, if the buyer alters the product in any way, IT'S THEIRS... No refund if mods are done!!
So my suggestion is; Keep the money, send the filter back to the buyer.
Bill N4AUS
k8vf
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:12 am
Location: South Branch, Mi

Filter issue.

Post by k8vf »

IF the filter was working when you sent it AND there was dialogue between you two, then obviously He owns the filter. (assuming you indicated it was functional when sent). His Mods void you of any liability unless you authorized them.

My position on sales is that the seller OWNS the item until received IN THE CONDITION it was sent and as advertised.

Not everyone agrees with this. Some sellers indicate " do you want to insure it?" By gosh, the seller had better insure it, because if I receive it and it is junk, it is coming back, brother.

Recently I bought a 570dg from a fellow whom indicated mint, 100% operational.......came with NO DAMAGE to boxes, side of rig caved in, D.O.A.

He sends me the USPS receipts. BALONEY!.....That guy should have said "send her back" and dealt with the USPS himself.
Why?...no damage to boxes...how is it an insurance job? It is Not!
That rig was sent damaged, guys. (BTW, PAYPAL did NOT seem to understand the nuances of this "no damage to boxes" scenario)

If WE HAMS insist that guys stand behind their words AS A GROUP, this kind of "stuff"wont happen as much.

Send the guy the filter back. He violated your trust when he cobbled it up.
ab7r
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:42 pm
Location: Oak Harbor, WA

And the verdict is.....

Post by ab7r »

It looks to be a unanimous decision here. Judge Marylan Millan would say.....

" Hey buddy.....you didn't even send it back to the right address, so I wouldn't believe you if your ham license came notarized! And you now expect a refund for an item you took upon yourself to alter??? No way jose! Case dismissed, send the man back his filter."


I like the way you're handling this!

GL and 73
Greg
AB7R
vk2uw
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:38 am

Re Item

Post by vk2uw »

if the item has been tampered with buy the buyer, then he has accepted the item.

If he had a problem with it on receipt then he should not have tampered with it. and returned it for a refund.

I would send the item back and send it C.O.D the post, so he pays the post for the item.
Chris Wright
VK2UW
w0hfg
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:39 pm

w8jn

Post by w0hfg »

Without your OK, he should not have tried any mods.. It's his. Send it back to him... Jim / W0HFG
W0LC
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:01 pm

Just the facts mam'

Post by W0LC »

Scott recommended that I provide some info and facts on this since what has been posted is misleading and outright false.

Allow me to share with you a sour situation I encountered with a KY Amateur Seller that posts on various swap boards.

I purchased a plug in filter for a radio that was advertised as working and good condition.
Okay, I sent off the funds to an address contained in an e-mail. I never thought to bounce it against the ULS.

Eventually, I got the item. I have a good deal of experience with these filters and have installed them a ga-zillion times. You do have to exercise caution when installing or removing them because one can damage them if you torque them sideways, or twist them. In all the years I have seen them, I have yet to experience one that is bad. That is, until this Seller sold me his.

I plugged it in.
Yep, you guessed it. DOA.
I removed it, checked the radio, tried it again, DOA.
I examined the radio with a magnifier and found all connections clean, shiney and as they should be. I plugged it in again, still DOA.
I left the power on and attempted to verify the seating of the filter and it worked, momentarily that is. Ah, bad connection on the filter, bad solder joint?

I pulled the filter and examined it, board side, with the magnifier and found where the Seller attempted repairs or mods to the item. Gee. He never disclosed that or the fact it might have been a repaired filter.

I tested the filter with a small clipped on jumper across the bad solder repair and it worked. Obviously his repair attempt didn't hold.

I had already purchased an alternate because I felt this one might be fried.

I contacted the Seller and told him what I found out about the filter, never once did he state anything regarding the obvious repair attempts that had been done to the filter to me.

E-Mail from January 2006:
Response to e-mail below:

"chris, sorry about the problem. send it back. 73 paul w8jn"


"Hi Paul

Got the filter on Friday. Installed it and it didn't
work. Checked the radio for removed jumpers, etc., still no luck.
Looked at the filter with a magnifier and it appears someone might have
had a soldering iron to it at one time. A couple of solder pads appear
lifted from the board, but not easy if at all to see with the naked eye.
I put a small jumper on the board and it "works" for the moment.
However, I won't be able to part with it as it is.

What would you like for me to do with it?"

[ Where is the issue about anything that I supposedly "did" to the filter" in his e-mail? He told me to send it back. Nothing more, nothing less. I complied.

I did inform him that the filter did work, and that I tacked a small jumper across the bad area if that would help him in locating the fault so he could repair it. I attempted no repairs as my eyesight isn't that good to work on small stuff like that kind of activity. He might want to affect professional repair since his attempt didn’t hold. He told me to return the item for refund, which I did. He was notified in the email that I would remove the temporary jumper but he stated just send it back for refund. No comments, no questions, no complaints. So I did.

I pulled up his address from the ULS and sent the item back. Unfortunately, unknown to me, the ULS data he has on file is false. He uses an entirely different address and location.

After dogging this shipment for a month, I finally got it back. Another shipping cost incurred (three so far) to get it back to his “alternate” address.

I obtained acknowledgement through the USPS that he had it at his post office on 21 Feb but in a later e-mail he tells me he never got it. I contacted his post office and they informed me that he was given a notice on the 21st and the item had been picked up. Now what is going on?

Shortly after that, when I sent him scanned copies of the USPS documentation, he sends me threatening e-mails that if I report him to the USPS, etc., etc., now talking no refund. In fact, accuses me of affecting repairs to the filter (which I have documentation and e-mail traffic that contradicts his misleading and false statements). I already told him I couldn't work on the item to that level and wouldn't.

He sold a DOA item and then I am told takes a poll on what to do with the refund? If I would have known that, I would have kept the item and had someone professionally repair it for me which I do with all my gear and used it and sold the alternate I bought. You have to take a poll to determine if you should do the right thing? What am I missing here?

I normally don't get into this he said/she said posts. But I was asked to post my info so I did.

Oddly though, when I discovered the filter was DOA, I e-mailed the SEller and asked what radio was this item pulled from. No reponse.

I e-mailed again about had the filter even been tested. Again, no response.

Should that have meant something to me? I assumed he was busy, missed the e-mail or something. I took him at his word.

These are the facts. I never work on someone else's equipment unless I have bought it and am keeping it. Who does that and then returns it for money back? Paul had full disclosure with me about what I found out about the filter, total documentation backwards and forwards. Yet, I have a number of e-mails he refused to address/answer and sends me contrary remarks to previous instructions. Not once did Paul offer to adjust the sell price and for me to keep the item. I asked in an e-mail, after I told him what I found about the filter, what should I do. He told me to return it. I followed his instructions.

I have the documentation to provide, but I didn’t want this to become a best Seller. Suffice it to say, I have bought and sold tens of thousands of dollars of gear over the years and until recently, I hadn't encountered someone that would do something like this. Albeit, I posted this info upon request.

I have and continue to stand behind anything that I sell. Period. I have and always will do the right thing by someone. If I had wanted to "repair" the work Paul had done to this item, I woudl have kept it and had it done and kept the item. It was HIS recommendation to return it. No questions, discussions, issues, concerns. He had all the info that you have here before anything was placed into the USPS system. I didn't need to spend an additional $8 to ship and insure his DOA item.

If he does return the initial money plus the additional shipping charges, I will delete all this. But to be fair, I feel that the facts should be put out there and not some half cocked story from someone bent on taking money from someone in a transaction gone bad. A bogus poll to determine how he should respond, contrary to previously agreed to agreement and commitments to me really reflects a lack of integrity and character.
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

confused chris

Post by w8jn »

no "false addres" i moved and gave chris the correct address in our original email and by his own admission was able to get his check to me at the correct address. i received his money. shipped the filter out the day received. chris indicated the filter was not working. i told him to return the filter to the same address he shipped the check to and i would instantly refund his money. he was able to get the check to the correct address. i included the correct address in the original emails we exchanged. he modified the filter and sent back a modded filter. it took six weeks for it to get to me. he sent continuous email. "it on the way, send me my money" i simply said, when it in my hand you will receive a refund. It arrived at my post office when i was in new york with the college team that i am the head varsity coach for. chris wanted me to leave my college athletes and fly home instantly after it took him 6 weeks and stop by the post office, send him a few dollars and fly back to new york. i stopped by the post office upon my return to pick up the modded filter. i still told chris that i would refund his money if he made a public apology for insulting me and casting doubt on my honesty becaues he jumped the gun. its his choice. if he apologizes he will receive a refund. if not he gets his modded filter back. thanks to all for your support. 73 paul w8jn
W0LC
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:01 pm

Ob brother

Post by W0LC »

Paul

Get off the steroids please.

No one asked you to fly back home. In fact, when I found the item was at your post office on 21 Feb, I confirmed to you that it was there but that you hadn't picked it up.

You told me on 2/13:
chris, nothing here. i am heading to new york until thursday. i will let you know if anything shows up here when i return 73 paul w8jn

[Which means you would be back on 2/16. I didn't find out about the filter being at your PO until 2/21.] again, you mislead with your statements. Please, stick to the facts.

On 2/23 you stated:
chris, it is thursday a.m. nothing yet. mail arrives around 1 p.m. paul

So either you never bothered to check with the PO or didn't go to pick it up.

All I sent you was info that the item was delivered to your PO on 2/21 and a notice was sent that day for you to pick it up. What is there to apologize about? No one accused you of anything. I provided you the shipping and delivery confirmation. Period. I did ask why you hadn't elected to go get it, was something wrong. You never answered that question either.

Paul, your whole approach to this issue has been a bit ridiculous. As to where I sent you the money, that was an address you sent in an e-mail. You never mentioned to me, "Oh by the way, my ULS address is not current, is bogus, is wrong, whatever". I am not a mind reader so I had no way to know when I sent the filter back to you that it would be going to another address.

Why is that even an issue with you? I located it, recalled it, got it back re-shipped it again to your alternate address and you got it. What is it with you?

I won't post any more statements on this issue. You have your "item" back that I DID NOT MODIFY OR REPAIR and you are well aware of this already, so why lie about that continually? Come on Paul, get some oxygen.

You never did answer my e-mails about had you even tested this thing after I got it and found it DOA. The board was damaged from mis-handling and botched up with a shotty repair which I didn't do. It isn't hard to correct, I told you that. I would have kept it and you could have adjusted the price or something, but YOU DIRECTED me to send it back. I did as you asked.

Why wasn't it an issue then when it is now? Nothing changed.

Good luck with your life Paul. I am truly sorry I ever wanted to purchase anything from you and it turned into a sour pickle like this. I never meant ot have such a terrible experience and for someone to act like this.

GL. All I can do is pray for you. I can do nothing more.
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

refund or filter, you decide

Post by w8jn »

chris, public apology and you get a full refund. no apology and the modified filter will be shiped back. your choice. tomorrow is the deadline. i don't take 6 weeks to return items and i do send to the correct address, unlike you who sent the check to the proper address and then made a conscious decision to ship the filter to the wrong address and demand your money back before i received the item. i guess that you knew that you did wrong modding the filter and you could pull a fast one on me by purposly and knowingly shipping it to the wrong address. remember, wednesday is your deadline to decide. i will send your money back. a full public apology for insulting me and publically questioning my honesty. the money is yours. do the right thing. best 73 paul w8jn
W0LC
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:01 pm

What are you wanting Paul?

Post by W0LC »

Apologize for what, Paul. That I told the truth and that I was openly communicative with you on all aspects as compared to your lack of responses to e-mails, questions, etc., that I sent the filter to an address pulled from the ULS which is incorrect because you didn't keep it up date? I told you I didn't have your e-mail address at my other site because it is a different server. Why didn't you specify in your e-mail to return it, reiterate the address you wanted me to use? Or is it because I followed your directions and returned the item and asked if you received it when you preferred I keep it? Or was it because you feel put out that I had to send it back to start with?

Had I known any of this initially I wouldn't have bought it let alone returned it.

Man, you are really out there Paul.

Try to act a bit more mature on issues in life. Stuff happens.

I am not rehashing the same old stuff over and over. What is the point?
You keep bringing up inane issues that mean little to nothing and stating things that just aren't true or substantiated. You have your filter, just send the funds back, else why did you ask me in the first place to spend more money to send something back you weren't willing to take back.

You are hopeless Paul.

Next time you post something for sale, have the courtesy to check it out and perhaps this won't happen again. While you are at it, get with the ULS and update your info. It is a requirement per Part 97. If you have difficulty finding it, I am certain there are many individuals out there willing to help you.

Tell you what I will give you Paul. Here is a list of "I'm sorries" take your pick:

1. I'm sorry Paul that I ever read your post for items for sale.
2. I'm sorry Paul that I ever decided to purchase your untested item.
3. I'm sorry Paul that I didn't check out your address first on ULS and interrogate you as to why the two don't match.
4. I'm sorry Paul that the item was DOA and botched up by someone other then myself.
5. I'm sorry Paul that I fully disclosed all info to you prior to ever sending anything to you.
6. I'm sorry Paul that I pulled your address off ULS since I didn't have access to my e-mail server that had your initial e-mail address.
7. I'm sorry Paul that it took me without your help or assistance in any way a month to recall the item back to me.
8. I'm sorry Paul that I had to again ship the item to your other address.
9. I'm sorry Paul that I followed your instructions and returned the item to you.
10. I'm sorry Paul that I didn't post a rant about what a crooked Seller you are to send something DOA to me.
11. I'm sorry Paul that I didn't make a stink about all the e-mails you never answered.
12. I'm sorry Paul that you had me send the item back to you when you back pedalled and used the returned item as a hostage.
13. I'm sorry Paul that I ever dealt with you in the first place.
14. I'm sorry Paul that I trusted you and was open with you.
15. I'm sorry Paul that you have made this issue what it is now.
16. I'm sorry Paul for everything that ever happened and I hope I never meet you anywhere, anytime for any reason ever again.

I'm sorry this hobby is developing into what our society is becoming.

GL
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

tick tick tick

Post by w8jn »

chris time is running out. make up your mind. you will find that i am not intimidated with your silly posts. wednesday midnight is rapidly approaching. make up your mind. do you want your money back or do you want your modded filter tick tick tick, time is a wastin' !!!
KE3GK
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:04 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Post by KE3GK »

I know what I would do ... and I bet by now after reading this mess - most others here would do too.

Stop acting like a horses arse and send the fellow his money back.

Apologies ? What kind of BS is that ? Your ego must be huge to demand an apology for some BS that you initiated on this website. Polls. Nice. Tick Tick Tick.

This should have never happened between you two guys here on this forum. What a shame. You're right - time is a wastin.
Last edited by KE3GK on Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KA9FOX
Site Admin
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 5:29 am
Location: La Crosse, WI
Contact:

Post by KA9FOX »

Bravo KE3GK.

Paul, for whatever reason, the item sold appears to have not been in working condition... you asked that it be returned... you've now got the item... so send the money back and be done with this. Life is too short.

73 - Scott KA9FOX
Free Ham Radio Classified Ads: https://swap.QTH.com
w7apm
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:53 am

Post by w7apm »

Before hearing both sides of this story it seemed like an open and shut case. After hearing both sides I will side with Chris on this. You did tell him to send it back.
w8jn
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

agree!

Post by w8jn »

yes i did tell him to send it back. to the correct address (it took 6 weeks to get to me and he wanted me to jump thru hoops prior to its return and emailed me 3 times per day when it arrived at the post office prior to me driving over and picking it up) and no home brew mods!
KA9FOX
Site Admin
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 5:29 am
Location: La Crosse, WI
Contact:

Post by KA9FOX »

Often times I will use the callsign lookup tool here on QTH, or the one at QRZ, to print a shipping label. These lookup tools pull data from the FCC database, which should always be accurate. I don't blame Chris for doing that... I would have done the same thing out of habit.

Paul, I'm not justifying the mistake... just letting you know that this type of mistake is easy to do. It would be best to let the FCC know of your new address, if you have not done so already.

- Scott
Free Ham Radio Classified Ads: https://swap.QTH.com
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