R & L Electronics - selling demo items as new

Share information regarding your recently completed deals with other ham operators. ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with the transaction can post in this forum. If you have a report of a scam by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead.
Forum rules
As of Dec 9, 2013: ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with a transaction can post here. Do not post replies in any topic if you are not the buyer or seller in the transaction being discussed! If you believe you can help the buyer or seller, please use the Private Message system to communicate with them. NOTE: if you have been scammed by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead. See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136 for additional rules.
Post Reply
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:48 pm
Location: Jax., FL

R & L Electronics - selling demo items as new

Post by kg4yjr » Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:52 pm

New gear buyers beware! Below is an account of a purchase I made from a
well known radio equipment dealer who tried to get away with the same
thing that dishonest sellers on eBay try to:

Recently I made a purchase over the phone with R & L Electronics in
Hamilton, Ohio. I’ve made purchases with them before and had no problems
at all and had recommended them to many individuals and also on
eham. This last time (and I do mean last time) was different. Lori took my
order and informed me that there was only one of the radios left that I
wanted. I specifically stated that if the item was a demo or a display
item that I was not interested in making the purchase but she assured
me that it was not. Upon receiving the item and opening the box it was
undeniably clear that the items in the box had been re-packed. I
telephoned the store (didn’t get the person’s name this time) and was told
that the radio was not used, that maybe the radio was taken out of the box
occasionally to show people. I said that I paid for a radio that was
packed at the factory to be opened by myself. After all, if you’re going
to sell me a radio at a new price you should ship a new radio. If your
going to sell me a demo radio or one that’s in that type of condition
then sell it at a demo price. But they don’t see it that way. They
figure as long as it was never sold, never mind how many people held it,
turned knobs and possibly dropped it that it's still a new radio. Plus
with the bad condition of the plastic wrapping, (it looked like someone
had it in their pocket for a week) it might have very well been a
returned radio. Their credibility doesn’t count for much when I requested that
I didn’t wish to purchase a radio in that condition but I guess one
sale to them is a higher priority than doing honest business and keeping a
return customer happy. Shipping the radio back at my cost for a refund
is the best that they offered to do. Like it was my fault they tried to
get over on me, not theirs. I personally will avoid them and advise
others to as well. You may not get exactly what you paid for.

Dave, KG4YJR

Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:41 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by AA8VL » Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:59 pm

As a resident from Ohio and a current long time shopper at R&L, I can say I wouldn't put it past them. They won't sell broken / damaged items, but they do try to make their money back on demos / returned items as they are a small store and it is hard for them to recoop the cost for this type of merchandice.

If I was in your situation I would call them and explain that the item is used and refund me $$$ at a demo price. If they won't do that...simply ship it back to them for a complete refund. Their loss in the long run!
From the studios located in downtown Columbus Ohio this is your friend Chris AA8VL broadcasting live, Good Evening!

Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:27 pm
Location: LA (Not Lower Alabama!)

R&L Electronics

Post by jrayneal » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:33 pm

I personally will never spend another dime with R&L. Not only wil they shaft you on demo equipment, they also will sell broken/defective equipment and lie about it's condition. A few years back I bought a used frequency display for a Yaesu FT101 and the female salesperson assured me that it looked very good and had been checked over by their technican and was in proper working order. When I received the display it appeared that it had been dragged down a rough road behind a truck and it was obvious that it couldn't possibly have been checked and be in working condition as the connecting cable had the connecting plug cut off it.
When I called them I was informed that the salesperson I had talked to no longer worked there and they couldn't be responsible for what she may or may not have told me, therefore no return/no refund.
Fortunately my credit card company saw things in a different light and the display unit was returned w/shipping cod but never again will I consider buying anything from them.


Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:48 pm
Location: Jax., FL

From the other posts about R & L Electronics

Post by kg4yjr » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:21 pm

It seems my incident isn't an isolated case. I don't get it though. Seems to me if you run a good, honest (the key word is >honest<) business with decent prices you wouldn't be able to keep your shelves stocked. I was a repeat buyer and would still probably be one if the $5 - $10 extra dollars they made off the radio by selling it as new instead of whatever it was, demo, used, etc. wasn't more important to them as my business was. Or their reputation for that matter.

Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 9:36 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio

R&L Electronics

Post by k8zw » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:58 pm

I've bought many, many new and used items from R&L over the last fifteen years and have NEVER experienced anything like the last posts. I've been treated very well by all staff there. They've always answered my questions, have been extemely polite, given me fair trade-in prices on my used gear, and cheerfully refunded my money on the few ocassions I returned items.

Their used gear display area is stocked with good gear at all times and I've seen the techs checking equipment almost every time I've visited their store.

Of all the Ham stores I've bought from over the years, I've been the happiest with R&L.


Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:48 pm
Location: Jax., FL

R&L Ripping me off! It only takes one time for me!

Post by kg4yjr » Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:20 am


I couldn't understand it either. I had purchased two radios from them before plus several antennas and other small stuff. I've actually wrote good reviews about them before. But as stated above, it only takes one time if you rip me off to run me off. I don't care how good you served me before. The sleaziest thing they did in my book besides repacking an item that has been who knows where and then passing it off as new, was sending it to me after I requested that I wished not to receive an item like that. That's two dishonest actions in one purchase. The arrogance of the person I spoke to on the phone after receiving it was totally low-life too. Wanting me to ship something back (to sell to their next victim) at my cost for their dishonesty is pitiful, lazy and inconsiderate. To much RF exposure I guess. On average I spend $80 - $200 a month on radio equipment. From now on it all goes to their competitors so I hope the extra $5 - $10 they made by passing off an opened box item at the new un-opened price was worth it.

Dave, KG4YJR

Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:47 am

R & L

Post by wr0t » Sun Jun 15, 2003 5:29 am

I have bought a few things from them over the years and they were never "top notch" in my book.

Their used gear is about the same as most fest or Ebay stuff, ok but not real great.

I have returned a couple of new items to them that were not new.

Will I buy there again? Not likely.

:D :D :D :wink: :wink: :wink:
Proud to Fly the Flag Long Before Was Popular

Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:40 pm
Location: Cross Lanes, WV 25313

R & L Radio

Post by W8VVE » Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:31 pm

I have purchased a few HF rigs...a few 2 meter radios...and some misc
items from R & L over the last 10yrs with NO problems. With each piece of gear I received a new factory sealed box. My latest purchase was last fall...a new Kenwood TS-570D(G)...factory sealed...and to my complete satisification.
Just putting my 2 cents worth in...I would RECOMMEND R & L in a heartbeat.
Sam W8VVE Cross Lanes, WV 25313

Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:47 am

Return Policies

Post by wr0t » Sun Jul 06, 2003 3:52 am

I have been looking for a rare piece of Icom gear and a large dealer had one used. Since I have been looking for one for a long time, I called them. They said it was mint.

So I asked the following questions.

Does it have the orig box?
Does it have the orig manual
Does it have the cables with it

All answers were no.

Any scratches ? Not many
Any dings? No
How is the paint? OK.
Does it work? Why sure

Can I return it if I do not like it? No, all sales final
What is the warr.? It has a "tail light" warr. I said ok, I will bite, what in the H is a "taillight " warr? He said, when the taillights on the UPS truck are out of sight, it is out of warr.

I am usually polite to even rotton dealers, but I could not be to this one.

I told him that I would pay 5 times his asking price to a honest dealer with a real warr. and hung up on him.

Yes, this was a ham dealer not a CB shop but he is in the front of my NO NO list.
Proud to Fly the Flag Long Before Was Popular

Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:21 pm

r and l honest

Post by w8jn » Sun Jul 06, 2003 1:13 pm

i have always found them to be honest.. call and ask for roger.. he will make it right.. paul w8jn

Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:47 am

R & L

Post by wr0t » Sat Jul 12, 2003 4:09 am

I have seen several things on the Icom reflector about R & L and others selling demo and "repack" rigs. In short, used, broken, scratched, returned, shipping damage, etc.

Tell R & L and others that it must be in a factory sealed box or you will send it back to them at once COD. Check how many will hang up on you...

I tried it on a dealer in question today and I was told, we don't need your business. Please call someone else. Guess what that told me ?????

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Proud to Fly the Flag Long Before Was Popular

Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:15 pm

R&L Elec.

Post by w5zzq » Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:13 pm

They have been doing that for years and years. That is why I do not buy from them anymore.

Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:00 pm

Me Too

Post by wc5rr » Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:11 pm

I purchased an accessory item some time ago from them. I think it might have been a filter or something. I asked if they had it in stock and was told "Yes". So I placed my order over the phone.

A week goes by and nothing. I call them back and get some girl that tells me that the item is on back order. I could have gotten it elsewhere had they been upfront and honest. It was already on my card.

Well, I decided to wait because I wasn't sure if I would end up with two of the same items from two separate dealers.

When I got itm they had charged me $10 more then the quoted price. I was told the first price quoted was in error. Whose fault is that? Why am I paying for the mistake?

Anyway, I won't be doing business with them. I work with AES to this day.

Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:26 am

Try AES, Burkhart or GigaParts

Post by jim » Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:42 am

I always shop the larger stores. They are honest. I will pay $20 more for a $800+ radio at AES because I know I am getting the best service I always have received over the last 20 years! AES stands by their products AND their word.

Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:47 am

I buy from

Post by wr0t » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:28 am

I buy most of my gear from Marshall at Memphis Amateur. I have been dealing with Marshall for about 25 years. You won't find a more honest person..

:lol: :lol: :D :D
Proud to Fly the Flag Long Before Was Popular

Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:27 pm
Location: Hamilton, Ohio

R and L Electronics

Post by AA8EK » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:19 am

I live in Hamilton, Ohio and almost everything in my shack has been bought at R and L Electronics. I have always been treated fairly and found their radio prices to be competative. After seeing all the bad deals I have seen on E-bay and on this website I intend to keep using R and L well into the future. I feel if the radio in question was used as a demo then you should have gotten your money back. I intend to keep doing business at R and L because I can see up front what I am getting for my money.
Steve Moore
Hamilton, Ohio 45013-1607
e-mail is AA8EK@aol.com
Have a nice day! :roll:

Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:47 am


Post by wr0t » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:30 am

I have been to Hamilton many times as my wife is from there. I doubt a local will be treated with anything but respect. News travels fast on the local rept. in a small area and Hamilton is not a very large area.

I have made many a detour to the Ham Center in IN, to buy something on the way even though I would only be about 1 mile away from R&L.

It's my choice and I don't spend my $$$$$ with R&L. Once burned, once learned....
Proud to Fly the Flag Long Before Was Popular

Post Reply