KE4AMQ Fred Massoni Beware

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As of Dec 9, 2013: ONLY BUYERS AND SELLERS directly involved with a transaction can post here. Do not post replies in any topic if you are not the buyer or seller in the transaction being discussed! If you believe you can help the buyer or seller, please use the Private Message system to communicate with them. NOTE: if you have been scammed by someone pretending to be a ham, please post in the Scammer Reports forum instead. See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136 for additional rules.
haansgruber
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 6:35 pm

Reply: KE4AMQ Fred Massoni Beware

Post by haansgruber » Sat May 28, 2005 6:53 pm

Jeff,

1.) It is clear to me, that it is your intention to try to "get over" on me in this deal.
I even added an additional microphone to the package, which was not sufficient to satisfy you.
You bought the radio used, in "as is" condition. You're now attempting to lower the price with this boondoggle.
You're hoping to eventually wear me down with this incessant badgering and attempts to defile my good name on the traders net (qth). My reputation speaks for itself, and I am happy to stand on those merits alone. I am certain the power cord was in the box.

2.) If you were not satisfied with the contents you received, you should have, contacted me, returned the package to me at that time, or made an additional agreement with me regarding the power cord (you claim was missing). Not purchased additional items and attempted to bill me for items you purchased. Which was not part of the original contract/agreement. I have no intention of fulfilling that obligation, since there is no agreement to support such an action. Period!

3.) Even if, the power cord was missing and not in the package, you cannot purchase the item and force, or coerce me to agree to a purchase not stipulated by the original contract. You would have to make a new contract regarding the purchase. I never received such an offer. You cannot dictate the terms of a new agreement all on your own. That is not the way contract law works.

4.) There is no court on the face of the earth that will stipulate that I, after selling a used, "as is" item to you, purchase additional items not included in the original packaging. I guaranteed the radio not to be D.O.A, and it is in said condition. The opinions of other hams (amateur radio operators) is irrelevant to the legal facts here.

5.) I have done nothing illegal. If you continue perhaps it is I, who will be filing charges against you. If I was in breech of the original agreement, your only legal option was to terminate the contract, not to alter it.
Sincerely,

Fred - ke4amq

KS4ED
Posts: 87
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One out of three

Post by KS4ED » Sat May 28, 2005 8:50 pm

Gee Fred, One "newie" (KW4FXD) says thumbs up to you but three others
(KC6TTZ, W3TDM & N0WIP) say thumbs down....hmmm.
In this forum...your reputation ain't doin' so good.

n0wjp
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Location: Omaha

Post by n0wjp » Sun May 29, 2005 4:46 am

Well. Fred, I'm glad to see you posting something here. It's the most effort you've put into resolving the issue so far.

To address your points:

1) The ad you placed on qth.com was for the radio, 2 mics, and a power cord:

"THIS IS A REAL NICE RADIO IN VERY GOOD SHAPE USED
VERY LITTLE, I DONT USE IT ANY LONGER EVERYTHING
WORKS ON IT.. HAS SEPARATE INPUT FOR HF AND SIX
METERS PUTS OUT A FULL 100 WATTS COMES WITH TWO
STOCK MICS ALL POWER CORDS. I WILL TAKE 350.00 FIRM
INCLUDES SHIPPING CONUS AND U.S. POSTAL MONEY ORDER
ONLY"

You didn't "add" anything to the package. The additional mic was part of the deal from the start, as was the power cord.

2) I emailed you the day I received the package (4/1/05) and saw that the power cord was missing. After getting no response from you, I followed up with emails on 4/4, 4/6, 4/11, 4/14, 4/16, 5/7, and finally got a response from you on 5/15, which is a little over 5 weeks from when I first notified you that the cable was missing.

And by the way, the additional item I purchased WAS part of the original purchase agreement. You can look at it 2 ways: You can either reimburse me for the power cable I had to purchase in order to use the radio or you can refund $40 from my purchase price since you were not able to deliver everything in our original agreement.

3) The power cable was part of the original contract. I made reasonable effort (see #2 above) to request that you make good on our original contract. I'm not asking you to accept the terms of a new agreemnet. I'm asking you to honor the agreement we already had.

4) You may be right on this one, but EVERY court on the face of the earth would require you to deliver all of the items that you offered for sale in your ad once you received payment for them. I have no problem with the radio or the microphones that were sent with it. My problem is with the fact one of the items I bought was missing. I want you to either send the cable to me or refund some money since it was missing.

5) I would disagree with you here. You took my money and didn't give me the product I agreed to buy and subsequently paid for. I did not alter the contract. I asked you to make good on it. I you feel that my insistence that you fulfill the terms of our agreement is cause for filing some kind of charges, then go for it. I plan to continue until I get some satisfaction on this.

Thanks and 73,
Jeff
N0WJP

kc8zjd
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:13 pm

WOW, this has gone on for a while.

Post by kc8zjd » Sun May 29, 2005 4:40 pm

After reading this for a while, I'll interject a few observations...

1. It seems that the "resolution" of this matter changed from a simple - "The bad feedback will speak for itself..." to a "I'll get my money one way or the other..." once people started chiming in with support one way or the other. That tells me emotions and the "war cry" are dictating more than rational thinking. I'm at a loss that anyone would risk another ham's professional career for $40.00... the amount of money to me does not equate with how far you are willing to take this (personal opinion). Do you really want to be responsible for the repurcussions of the worst possible outcome (job loss) over getting your $40.00 ? I'm pretty confident if this guy loses his job, he will be twice as unlikely to get you your money.

2. My grandfather used to say... "It's better for people to think you're ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." Sorry Fred, but that's just what you did. Your post alone shows that you care nothing about the deal once you ship. Anybody will tell you that UPS or any other carrier will only deal with the shipper, not the receiver of merchandise... their contract is with you, not Jeff - he has no recourse with them, so telling him to take it up with them is simply thumbing your nose at him and the situation. I'd put odds that anyone reading this forum before dealing with you will hang around for the next deal.

3. Being a police officer does not inherently give one a good understanding of the law.

Just an outside viewpoint, emotions seemed to be getting a little thick in here. Hope in the end you guys can work this deal through amicably for all.

73's!

n0wjp
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Location: Omaha

Re: WOW, this has gone on for a while.

Post by n0wjp » Sun May 29, 2005 5:14 pm

kc8zjd wrote:After reading this for a while, I'll interject a few observations...

1. It seems that the "resolution" of this matter changed from a simple - "The bad feedback will speak for itself..." to a "I'll get my money one way or the other..." once people started chiming in with support one way or the other. That tells me emotions and the "war cry" are dictating more than rational thinking. I'm at a loss that anyone would risk another ham's professional career for $40.00... the amount of money to me does not equate with how far you are willing to take this (personal opinion). Do you really want to be responsible for the repurcussions of the worst possible outcome (job loss) over getting your $40.00 ? I'm pretty confident if this guy loses his job, he will be twice as unlikely to get you your money.
Thanks for putting this into perspective. I certainly wouldn't want Fred to lose his job over a $40 cable, or for the bad deals he's made with others for that matter. I just want Fred to realize that he has a responsibility to his customers that doesn't end when he cashes the check. As a responsible seller it is his obligation to represent his items accurately and follow through with deals after he has the money in hand.

After being viewed almost 1300 times, I think this discussion has been seen by enough people so that everyone has a good idea of what it's like to do business with Fred and the risks involved. This discussion is starting to show up in the search engines, so anyone who bothers to check on Fred before making a deal with him will surely see this thread (do a Google search for Fred Massoni and you'll see what I mean).

Fred, a $40 cable isn't enough for me to trash your professional career, but it is enough for me to make sure other hams know that you're not a man of your word. As the previous poster said, I was probably taking this a little too seriously. I won't file a complaint with your professional organization, but I'll still stand by my previous comments on your integrity and certainly would warn others to avoid making any kind of deal with you unless they understand the risks and are willing to accept them.

I would sure like to be able to post a message here saying that the matter has been solved to the satisfaction of both parties, but your reluctance to work with me on this will guarantee that won't happen.

Jeff

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Compromise?

Post by KA9FOX » Mon May 30, 2005 6:43 am

Clearly, it's a "he said" "she said" problem. Seller says the cord was in the box when shipped. Buyer says the cord was not in the box. Who's right? We'll never know.

How about if Fred meets you half-way and send you $20 for half the price of the cord, and be done with it? This way, you both have spent an equal amount of money to finish the deal, and neither of you has to admit you were wrong.

- Scott KA9FOX
Free Ham Radio Classified Ads: https://swap.QTH.com
Web Hosting & Domain Name Services: https://hosting.QTH.com

haansgruber
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KE4AMQ Fred Massoni Beware

Post by haansgruber » Mon May 30, 2005 7:12 am

Jeff,

I love the way people offer to solve this problem at my expense.
Which is exactly what Jeffy was hoping for.
It ain't gonna work.

This is how these folks play the system, I'll cry until I get sympathy.
If I go on long enough, sooner or later, somebody is bound to hear my tale of woe and jump to defend me.
Even if I don't get anyone, I'll ruin you Fred, you'll never trade here again. I've seen your kind before Jeffy.

I don't respond well to threats.
But, then let's face it who does?
You do as you see fit, this is not about a power cord, you said right from the very beginning, I want $40.00.
If it were about a power cord, you would have asked for it, rather than offering the sob story about how I put you out $40.00.
Who authorized you to buy a new cord at my expense Jeff?
Because it wasn't me. The reason I know this, is because I sent it to you with the radio and even added an extra micrphone.
You're one of those people who are never be satisfied.

The power cord was shipped with the radio and the 2 microphones.

What's right is not always what's popular, and what's popular is not always what's right. That's what my grandfather said.

With the thousands of happy people I have traded gear with and sold items to in amateur radio on this board, as well as others, and the hamfests I frequent, I have only run into three of you wacko's.

I colour myself extremely fortunate.

Do me a favor and lose my number.

Please, go be someone else's headache!

I stand behind my statement, your one of those cheap type's who want's to re-negotiate after the deal has been made.

Sorry, that's not how it works.

PS. If anyone of you who stipulated you feel the $40.00 is such a minor deal, you send him the money!!! I'll guarantee if it were you he was trying to extort it from, you'd be singin a different song!!!

I hope the view is good from those seats.

My apologies to you Scott, I know you run a class organization over there and I really dislike participating in these type of threads.

So, this will be my final post on this matter. You gentlemen, may continue to beat a dead horse until he talks, if you'd like. My guess is, it'll be pretty thin on results.

Fred - ke4amq

n0wjp
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Post by n0wjp » Mon May 30, 2005 2:55 pm

You know Fred, in your post you said that this wasn't about a power cord and if it were, then I would have asked for it. I assure you that it really is about a power cord. When I received tha package on 4/1 I assumed you had just forgotten to put the power cord in the box -- an honest mistake. In my first email to you I said that the radio had arrived in good shape and in the condition you had promised and asked you to send along the power cord. After a couple of more emails that went unanswered, you finally responded and told me that it was in the box and I would have to take it up with UPS myself because you weren't going to do anything. I even suggested that you go to the shipping place and see if they perhaps left the power cord out of the package, but you wouldn't even do that for me.

I would consider myself a satisfied customer if you sent me a power cord for the radio even after all of this trouble we've had with the deal. It's not about the money, Fred. It's about following through with the deal the way you promised to do when I agreed to buy the radio from you. I'm glad you have only run into three "wackos" in all the thousands of deals you have done. I've been tradinig radio gear on the internet since 1990 and have been very lucky in that you are the only person I have ever dealt with that would not make a bad deal into a good one. I'm not after sympathy here. I want you to follow through with the deal as you promised.

Scott -- Thanks for suggesting a solution for our dispute. Input from people not directly involved in the situation sure helps keep things in perspective.

73,
Jeff
N0WJP

K4ICL
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There is a flaw in the ointment...

Post by K4ICL » Mon May 30, 2005 5:43 pm

Jeff:

In another related Forum Topic, “fred massoni” you said:
  • Just to give Fred the benefit of the doubt, I put the radio, all the original packing material, and the 2 microphones back in the original box and weighed it. The weight was 8.0 pounds, which is exactly what the UPS web site said the package weighed. I then added the replacement cable that I ordered from AES (just the cable, no packaging) and the weight on my scale went to 8.9 pounds. From this it looks to me like the cable was never in the box. The fact that the box was still sealed, with no broken tape or re-taped areas, would make me think that the package wasn't ever opened until I received it.
Unfortunately, your method of “testing” for the presence of the cord is flawed. Here is why.
  • According to the information you provided, above, the purchased cord weighs 0.9 lbs (8.9 lbs – 8.0 lbs = .9 lbs). Given this, the chord weights 16 x .9 = 14.4 oz.

    Subtracting 14.4 oz from the 8.00 lbs on the UPS label you get 7lbs 1.16 oz, the weight of the package without the 14.4 oz cord. Right so far?

    According to the printed UPS guidelines, available on their Internet site by downloading their rate guidelines, the weight on the UPS label is determined by rounding ANY fraction of a pound to the nearest pound. Direct quote given below. This means the package, missing the 14.4 oz cord, would have been marked as weighing 8.00 lbs!
  • Determine actual weight. Use any standard scale and round up any fraction of a pound to the next full pound.
Using your approach, there is no conclusive evidence about the presence or absence of the cord at the time the package was weighed by UPS, therefore, your conclusion that “From this it looks to me like the cable was never in the box” could be incorrect, since your methodology would NOT have detected the absence or presence of the 14.4 ounce cord in the package.

Previously, I attempted to warn you about this possible flaw but my warning was ignored. Since you appear to be totally convinced that Fred did not include the power cord in the package and have given no credence to the possibility that it was lost by the packing service, I share this with you in the interest of fair play. A small detail, but an important one.

K4ICL

n0wjp
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Re: There is a flaw in the ointment...

Post by n0wjp » Mon May 30, 2005 5:56 pm

K4ICL wrote:]

...

Unfortunately, your method of “testing” for the presence of the cord is flawed. Here is why.
  • According to the information you provided, above, the purchased cord weighs 0.9 lbs (8.9 lbs – 8.0 lbs = .9 lbs). Given this, the chord weights 16 x .9 = 14.4 oz.

    Subtracting 14.4 oz from the 8.00 lbs on the UPS label you get 7lbs 1.16 oz, the weight of the package without the 14.4 oz cord. Right so far?

    ....

    K4ICL
I can see what you're getting at, but when I weighed the package without the cord, it actually did weigh 8 pounds on my scale (restaurant scale that is accurate to 1/10th oz). Using your argument and the UPS method of determining package weight, they would have rounded the weight of the package up to 9 pounds if it had contained anything that would have pushd the weight over 8.0 pounds.

Jeff

K4ICL
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Hmmm.

Post by K4ICL » Mon May 30, 2005 6:59 pm

Jeff:

OK, now I understand what you did better.

I am still wondering how two individuals can take such a solid opposing stand on the issue, having made themselves certain each is right. Something is missing. I still wonder about the possibility/probability that the part was left out by a packing service. Maybe Fred can shed some light on this.

Anyway, thanks for helping me learn more about the situation. Nuff said...

K4ICL

n0wjp
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Re: Hmmm.

Post by n0wjp » Mon May 30, 2005 10:13 pm

K4ICL wrote:Jeff:

OK, now I understand what you did better.

I am still wondering how two individuals can take such a solid opposing stand on the issue, having made themselves certain each is right. Something is missing. I still wonder about the possibility/probability that the part was left out by a packing service. Maybe Fred can shed some light on this.

Anyway, thanks for helping me learn more about the situation. Nuff said...

K4ICL
Honestly, when that box arrived I unpacked it myself right there on the kitchen table. I found the 2 mics and the radio, but didn't find the cable. I grabbed a grocery bag and put the packing peanuts into it a little at a time because I figured the cord was buried in there somewhre. I went through it half a dozen times just to make sure it wasn't in there.

If Fred is so insistent that he dropped off the cable along with the rest, then the shipping place must have left it out when they packed the box. The package arrived in excellent condition. No tears, dents, or any repackaging. It was a brand new box. I can believe Fred when he says that he dropped off the cable. Unfortunately, the UPS Store will not talk to me about the possibility that the cable is still there in the store since I'm not the shipper. They will only talk to Fred and so far he is unwilling to pick up the phone and call them. If he can get with them, find the cable, and get it to me, then I'll be a happy customer.

Incidentally, the radio arrived in excellent condition just as Fred said. Much less wear and tear than I would have expected for a radio of that vintage. I have been happy with the operation of the radio and plan to take it mobile next week.

73,
Jeff

KS4ED
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Hard to defend....

Post by KS4ED » Tue May 31, 2005 1:03 am

The few posts that Fred has left on this forum concerning this matter
has clearly allowed Fred to identify where the real problem is.
Try as hard as you may to defend his position...you can't.
The shipping store won't deal with Jeff, UPS won't deal with Jeff and
Fred won't deal with Jeff. However, the first two would deal with Fred...
if he was even the slightest concerned that Jeff did not receive
everything he paid Fred for. I wonder what would have happened if
Fred was still waiting for his check or money order.

n4jjp
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KE4AMQ

Post by n4jjp » Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:23 pm

I have been trying to remember where I have seen Fred's user name before. Haans Gruber was the lead bad guy in the first Die Hard movie who when Holly McClain called him a theif proclaimed" I am an exceptional thief". I am not making any statements pro or con. There may be another connection here I don't see, but I believe with all the controversy in this thread I would find another user name especially if I stood behind a badge which just so happens that I do. 73 Jeff

n0wjp
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Update

Post by n0wjp » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:05 pm

I haven't heard anything at all from Fred since his last post, so I sent him a couple of emails asking him to help resolve the situation, but they were not answered.

Since he's sure that the cable was given to the shipper and I'm sure I didn't recevie it, my guess is that it's still sitting at The UPS Store. I sent Fred an email this morning asking him to call them and check. If the cable is there, I asked him to have them ship it to me UPS ground and I would pay the shipping costs. Hopefully Fred will spend a few minutes making this call and fixing the deal. This solution wouldn't cost him anything except the few minutes it would take to make the phone call.

73,
Jeff

n0wjp
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Another update

Post by n0wjp » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:43 am

Still no response from Fred. Sent a couple of more emails this week asking for his help in resolving our problem, but he's not even answering email. It just seems to me that a person of good moral character would make some kind of effort to work this out.

Jeff

kc6ttz
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KE4AMQ

Post by kc6ttz » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:56 am

I emailed him several times too when he screwed me and he wouldnt make it right. Guess he is as corrupt and low as the police here. Doesnt suprise me!!!

KD8Z
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Post by KD8Z » Sun May 18, 2008 12:33 am

I just must know how this played out?
Only you can prevent forest fires!...Smokey the Bear

wb6don
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Post by wb6don » Sun May 18, 2008 3:45 am

I bet they both had to go to the hospital. :lol:

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Post by lhk0pd » Sun May 18, 2008 1:31 pm

Well here i go and i should really keep out of this but i have to say this much. If Fred indeed is making dishonest deal's,then why would any one want him for a Law enforcement officer. This is if i understand his job as read here to mean.If he screws people in deal's then one can only imagine what he's capable of as a law enforcement person.

But if Jeff is in the wrong then my question is what would he have to gain over recieving another power cord or even as Scott suggested splitting the difference which would amount to $20.00. And Jeff have you considered calling the UPS packaging store your self to maybe learn if such a item might possibly be in their pocession. And one other opinion i myself would complain to his employer if he is in Law enforcement work if for only one reason and that is if say for example he was a important witness in a serious crime case a good defense lawyer could check his character back ground and use such activity as this to prove he is not believable and thus a dangerous criminal might walk.
Larry Huff K0pd

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Post by KD8Z » Sun May 18, 2008 2:28 pm

Keep in mind that this took place in 2005!
Only you can prevent forest fires!...Smokey the Bear

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Post by lhk0pd » Sun May 18, 2008 3:44 pm

Good point as i never thought to look at the date........
Larry Huff K0pd

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Post by K9XR » Sun May 18, 2008 5:09 pm

KD8Z wrote:Keep in mind that this took place in 2005!
There must have been a good point to revive it, but I can't see it. Oh well, why not stir the pot?

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Post by N2PET » Sun May 18, 2008 9:16 pm

Sheeeezzzz! All This over a simple power cord! :roll:

KD8Z
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Post by KD8Z » Wed May 28, 2008 3:28 pm

k9xr wrote:
"There must have been a good point to revive it, but I can't see it. Oh well, why not stir the pot?"

So why did you add to the fray? Just to stir the pot? Nap time?
Only you can prevent forest fires!...Smokey the Bear

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