KI8EP - Pat Herman - Have you been scammed by him, yet?

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N8UGV
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:09 pm
Location: Muskegon, MI
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KI8EP - Pat Herman - Have you been scammed by him, yet?

Post by N8UGV »

Greetings...

My name is Vance and my call sign is N8UGV. Pat is a friend whom I haven't seen in about 3 years. The last contact I had with him, myself and a fellow ham from our area confronted Pat with information from several different sellers throughout the US whom had purchased items from him, sent money, but never received the items. We were able to bring all of the situations to a satisfactory conclusion at that time. However, it would seem Pat has fallen back into the same routine.

If you have been scammed by Pat, please contact me. I have been in contact with at least one ham who has run into the same thing, payment was sent and Pat was never heard from again. Regardless of the circumstances you have faced with Pat - KI8EP, please let me know. I will require some form of proof as well. I can make no promises that you will receive any satisfactory resolution nor an compensation in any way shape or form. However, if you are one of Pat's victims, I want to hear from you. I may be able to help.

Sincerely,

Vance J. Stringham - N8UGV
Montague, MI

Also - I anyone know's Pat's E-bay user name, and user names from other auction or sales sites please let me know. He is likely to have also sold items related to radio controlled airplanes and model trains. Thanks... vjs
K4ICL
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Location: Greenville, SC
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HUH?

Post by K4ICL »

Whoa... Wait a minute. Let's see if I have this straight.

You say you know the alleged scammer, Pat, KI8EP, and he is your friend. You and a buddy have confronted Pat for, allegedly, scamming others and brought "the situations to a satisfactory conclusion at that time."

Since, you allege, Pat has "fallen back into the same routine," and now you want readers of this topic to send you proof of other alleged scamming so you can "bring the situation to a satisfactory conclusion."

There is too much missing here.

Questions:


1. Did Pat ever scam you or your buddy? If not, why are you involved? What is your interest in this?

2. How is Pat’s business any of your business? Are you legally representing Pat in any way?

3. Why should readers send you anything regarding their business transactions with your friend Pat? How is their business any of your business?

4. Specifically, what alleged scams did you bring to a “satisfactory conclusion” and how was that done?

5. What new alleged scams show that Pat has "fallen back into the same routine"?

6. What is the rest of the story?

Sincerely,

AL
N8UGV
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:09 pm
Location: Muskegon, MI
Contact:

Response to K4ICL's questions...

Post by N8UGV »

Al,

all the questions you have asked are valid and I appreciate your asking. I also ask you go to the search area on this webpage and search messages containing "KI8EP". You will find the message I first read from KB9VXJ. I then contacted KA9FOX asking for more information and Scott asked me to post some sort of message here. That is what I did. Now, on to your questions...

Question 1. Did Pat ever scam you or your buddy? If not, why are you involved? What is your interest in this?

As a matter of fact Pat did defraud me out of $100 about 4 years ago. He was familar with eBay and several other on-line sites were one might sell amateur radio equipment where I had only minimal experience. So, I gave him an Outbacker mobile HF antenna and asked him to list it. I trusted him and didn't even give it a thought that providing him with the antenna before the sale was the wrong thing. After several months I remembered the antenna and called Pat and asked if it had sold. He said he hadn't. It was probably two weeks later I was at his house and asked for the antenna back. After an extensive search he indicated "...it must have been stolen" as he had kept it in the garage. I found it strange other items of "more common" value than a mobile HF antenna were not taken such as a lawn mower and things of that sort. Though suspicious I had no other reason to doubt him until about a month later a ham from the Holland, Michigan area contacted me by phone. He claimed to have seen Pat sell the item at a swap fest. I then contacted Pat and asked him about this information. He admitted he had and gave me a 2m amp. in remittence. It at least a year later when another ham contacted me with the information I discussed in my main message. I am involved because amateurs tend to assist each other when possible. I don't believe this is situation is exempt from this. I have no other interest in this than trying to help fellow amateurs. Some people deliver radio-grams; some sort QSLs; in this case I live in the same general area as a ham who has given other hams grief and if I can help in some way, I make myself available. Period

Question 2. How is Pat’s business any of your business? Are you legally representing Pat in any way?

Let me begin by saying that I am in no way shape or form legally representing Pat. I know who he is. We were at field day together a few times; we've fished together, hunted, and attended church together. I am not a lawyer, judge, police officer, or someother member of law enforcement. That being said, I am very familiar with Muskegon county and my knowledge of Pat's whereabouts and who Pat is may be of some assistance to any amateur whom was dupped by Pat. That is all I am offering. How is it my business? I answer with the question aren't we in the same hobby together? Isn't promoting good will part of amateur radio? Don't friends try to help friends out from time to time? It is true that I haven't seen or spoken to Pat in 3 years; that is, since the last time I spoke to him about dupping people out of money. On that day we parted on good terms but we didn't stay in touch. I am not out to protect Pat in some way, but to make it a possiblity to help other amateurs. If that is a fault of some sort, then I am guilty.

Question 3. Why should readers send you anything regarding their business transactions with your friend Pat? How is their business any of your business?

Lets look at a hypothetical situation. I put an add in the paper, "Nondescript bag of money found. Contact me and I will turn it over." How many illegitimate calls would I get? While I most certainly don't have any money to give to anyone, I am offering to help locate Pat, maybe pose as a direct contact point to Pat for the amateur whom is out money, etc. If I get 10 contacts saying Pat owes them money and approach Pat or anyone with only that information, what proof do I have? However, if they can provide reasonable evidence, such as an e-mail containing specifics of the transaction, a photocopy of a money order receipt, etc, then that builds the case. Plain and simple. I am not asking for social security numbers and bank account numbers here. Furthermire, no amateur has to contact me, therefore their business is not any of my business. I am simply offering some assistance. They then choose to make their business my business. If someone doesn't like it that way, they don't have to get ahold of me. I simply can't help them.

Question 4. Specifically, what alleged scams did you bring to a “satisfactory conclusion” and how was that done?

In the cases I was refering to in my first post, the ham's situations were not very different from mine, only in reverse. Each had purchased a piece of equipment through the interenet or classifieds, sent payment, but never received the items in question. I believe in once case Pat sold the same HF or multimode VHF radio to two separate hams. I had been contacted by another local ham whom knows Pat and asked if I was aware of the situation. I wasn't but he quickly brought me up to speed. He had gathered enough information from four different hams to validate their claims that Pat had defrauded them out of money. Knowing Pat I suggested we contact him with the evidence. We met with Pat together and basically explained he was very much in danger of both criminal and civil penalties if he didn't quickly resolve the matter. He was only days away from a deadline the US Postal Service had given him to respond. He quickly admitted he owed several people equipment and obtained a postal money order to refund one ham. We gathered the equipment and sent it out the same day. Plain and simple. What kind of resolutation am I promising? NONE. It is impossible for me to give any guarentee other than offering my help.

Question 5. What new alleged scams show that Pat has "fallen back into the same routine"?

I would say the previous response pretty much take care of this one. The scam is, sell a piece of equipment, collect the money, retain the piece of equipment and maybe even relist it in another location and sell it again. That is criminial, isn't it? Go to eBay and search out the user name K8CMA. Look at the one negative feedback. Compare that to KB9VXJ's messages on this website. If I remember correctly, the one on eBay is from 3 years ago and I wasn't even aware of that guy. I've already contacted him and the circumstances are the same.

Question 6. What is the rest of the story?

My apologies for not filling in more of the blanks. I can see, by reading my original post, there were some gaping holes that needed to be filled in. Again, thank you for asking for clarification.


If anyone has further questions, by all means please ask.


Sincerely,


Vance - N8UGV

K4ICL wrote:Whoa... Wait a minute. Let's see if I have this straight.

You say you know the alleged scammer, Pat, KI8EP, and he is your friend. You and a buddy have confronted Pat for, allegedly, scamming others and brought "the situations to a satisfactory conclusion at that time."

Since, you allege, Pat has "fallen back into the same routine," and now you want readers of this topic to send you proof of other alleged scamming so you can "bring the situation to a satisfactory conclusion."

There is too much missing here.

Questions:

{clipped and inserted into the reseponse}

Sincerely,

AL
KA9FOX
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Post by KA9FOX »

Thanks for your efforts, Vance!

Would it make sense to try to involve the police? I mean, you will grow old continuing to try to persuade Pat to stop fraudulent activities, with the current plan. Let him scam, try to make it good, let him scam, try to make it good... where will it end?

73 - Scott KA9FOX
Free Ham Radio Classified Ads: https://swap.QTH.com
N8UGV
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:09 pm
Location: Muskegon, MI
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KA9FOX...

Post by N8UGV »

Thanks Scott...

for the comments. I agree completely. At his point I am still deciding what the best course of action is. I am currently working with one ham but haven't heard from anyone else. He paid with a postal money order which will work to his advantage and I would recommend all hams pay with postal money orders. If they are defrauded, then it makes it easier to get help from the USPS direct. Thanks again!

Vance - N8UGV
K3PZ
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:59 pm
Location: Stuart, FL
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Post by K3PZ »

Filing a fraud complaint with the USPS is as simple as going to: https://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/f ... plaint.htm

Paul Zora
K3PZ
N8UGV
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:09 pm
Location: Muskegon, MI
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Update...

Post by N8UGV »

I,

have made e-mail contact with Pat. I have not confronted him with the information I have yet and I still working with a couple of hams to determine the best course of action.

Vance - N8UGV

PS - K3PZ - thanks for the link!
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