SHIPPING DAMAGE ! WHO IS RESPONSIBLE ???

Discussion of various shipping and packing methods, tips and tricks.
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WB1FRW
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:54 pm

SHIPPING DAMAGE ! WHO IS RESPONSIBLE ???

Post by WB1FRW » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:48 pm

I would like to here from anyone out there who would like a discussion on the above topic. Shipping Damage who is responsible?

The shipper double boxes and properly packs the item , well boxed, proper materials, even boxed oversize. Which I have UPS documentation to substantiate my claim.

The buyer gets the radio. Its damaged. Now even though the buyer has been told to keep all packing materials. Out of ignorance or otherwise the buyer throws out the outerbox.

The shipper after several attemps gets UPS to settle a partial damage claim !
The buyer states 3 things wrong with the radio. Dial glass out of place, not broken, dial string jumped off pulley and 1 tube went bad. All three were done in shipping. Buyer accuses seller of shipping radio not working without any fact finding. Yes the radio arrived damaged, not the sellers fault, shippers fault. The radio was packed well and working when shipped. I do not blame the buyer for being upset BUT buyer should not start making false accusations.

The receiver threw out the box and ignored me and UPS telling him to put it back in its original packing and double box. The buyer ships radio back in single box with insufficient packing.

While I'm at it let me state buyer states radio doesn't work from to much dust. Hello, buyer please wake up. The tube going bad during shippent was the final cause as per me testing all tubes and replacing on arrival back at my QTH (the shipper)me. DUST DOES NOT MAKE A VINTAGE RADIO stop working !

Also either UPS or the buyer damaged cabinet at his place of residence whether ( intentional or accidental ). Looks like the buyer couldn't get top lid to flip up and appears that the buyer may have put a LARGE flat screwdriver in from the side to pry the lid up. Also could have been done by UPS due to the buyer sending unit back with insufficient materail and also not tape the top or bottom of the only(single) box which he returned the radio in. Buyer also returns the radio less 7 of the 8 screws holding in the front panel.

Well although I should name names , I will not do so unless the buyer happens to but a gripe on here.

So I'm all ears here. Lets here from you.

In my opinion this person should not be buying or selling. My call is wb1frw. I am the writer of this posting.

Also, should I post the buyers name as he seems to be more upset about the dust than the actual damage. Personally I think this particular buyer should not be buying off the internet. Better he sticks to the hamfest where he can bitch and moan the person at the hamfest table !

If he can't accept a small amount of dust in a 50 plus year old hallicrafters radio then he shouldn't be buying one. I do have pictures to substantiate my claim. After dust removal chassis is very nice . The dust was light and had been blown out six months prior.

73 Gary

K4ICL
Posts: 663
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 1:07 pm
Location: Greenville, SC
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BOTH parties are responsible...

Post by K4ICL » Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:14 pm

An all too familiar story, unfortunately.

In business sales transactions of any kind, it is the responsibility of the seller to get the goods safely to the buyer, unless other arrangements are expressly agreed to in advance. He must properly package the item(s), select a carrier, and turning the item over to the carrier for shipment. At this point, the seller has accepted the risk that the item he sold could be damaged in shipment. If he is wise, he will pay the extra cost to have the item properly insured against any loss due to damage when in the item is in carrier's possession. Usually, this cost is passed on to the buyer as part of the cost of the item.

Buyers can assume more control over the claim process if they pay for the shipping themselves, using an account number with he carrier. This may make the buyer feel better but it also releases the seller from his obligation to get the item to the buyer in the same condition as it was when it was packed for shipment. In essence, the buyer is accepting the item at the shipment originating point.

From that point on, the carrier is responsible for the condition and safety of the item. If all goes well, the item will be delivered to the buyer by the carrier. This does not end the carrier's obligation, however, when the item is insured against shipping damage.

If the item is in the same conditon as it was in when it was packed by the seller, all should be well and the transaction is completed. If not, BOTH the seller and the buyer have a responsible role in getting the issue resolved. The buyer must do what he can to see to it that the necessary information and other evidence is available and provided to the seller so the seller can process an insurance claim against the carrier. IF he fails to to this, the buyer, by his default, assumes the risk of loosing any damage payments . Since his inactions would be the direct cause for not being able to settle the claim with the insurance agent, he assumes the loss, NOT the seller. The seller CAN NOT be expected to process a claim without proper assistance from the buyer. BOTH parties MUST work together if the issue is to be resolved satisfactorily.

If the buyer fails to cooperate with the seller to resolve the issue, as described above, he "owns" the damage done by the shipper and, inadvertently, places himself in the position of accepting the item in whatever condition is was in when delivered by the carrier. His inactions, alone, has made it impossible for the seller to follow through to recover damages and the seller is not obligated to refund or accept the return of the damaged item.

If the buyer cooperates completely with the seller to resolve the issue and the claim is refused by the insurance agent because of poor packing or some other seller-origninated problem, the seller is obligated to accept return of the item from the buyer, shipping to be payed by the seller. Return payments to the buyer should be immediate.

An opinion...
Cheers,

AL
K4ICL

K6LVD
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:36 am
Location: Santa Rosa,Ca
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There is NO obligation for a seller to accept a return from

Post by K6LVD » Wed Jul 23, 2003 6:33 am

It is a common misbelief that the seller has to accept returns of goods from the buyer.

The seller should always specify his return policy in his sales. He should limit his reponsiblity to what he will be willing to do.

Once the buyer has recieved and used the item there is no return unless the seller wishes to accept it for customer satisfaction.

The seller is never responsible for making sure that the buyer recieves the item unless the seller specifically accepts that responsiblity.

All of these statements depend upon what your state law is.

The UK has a very strict return requirement, but the US does not.

jack
The Santa Rosa Trader Jack used to run the Radios that Glow in the Dark Net on7240. Til this computer and old age got me.

wr0t
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:47 am

Who is responsible

Post by wr0t » Sat Aug 02, 2003 5:13 am

Having sold many items and shipped them over the last 5 years or so, I have the following comments.

I recently went thru some very sticky situations involving legal action in selling items and shipping them. This was very costly to me and far exceded the value of what was sold.

Based on my recent experience

The seller is responsible for the delivery and quality and the satisfaction of the buyer in almost every instance. To think you are not can be very expensive should the buyer decide to press the issue.

Most of the time there is never a problem and if there is damage and it is insured it will be handled in time and both people are satisified.

Then comes the one time that you sold an item that cannot be easly replaced like a vintage piece of equipment and it gets damaged in shipping.

The buyer feels that even if it could be repaired, it would destroy the collectable nature of the item and refuses to accept a replacement assuming that one could be found because it is not the same serial number.

You sold the item in good faith, it was paid for and it was sold as is right?

WRONG. In a court of law the buyer has ALL the rights, here this little poor old collector used money that his wife and kids needed to buy a rare item from this big old rich seller and it gets damaged. He can cancel the sale and get a full refund reguardless of insurance coverage and the fact that the seller is now stuck. He will also get paid back for all expenses like phone calls, lawyer fees, court costs and incidentals like paper, envelopes, even car mileage and the like. In other words, a blank check.

I never thought it could happen but it sure did. Also in order to fight the issue the seller will have to travel to the buyers court and hire a lawyer licensed in that state to defend.

So based of the advice of my lawyer, for any sale that you make that you do not want to just give the buyer his money back and tell him to keep the item the following should be done.

A written sales contract should be written up, spelling out all agreements signed and notorized by each party. The money should be held in escrow or by a thrid party until everything is complete.

If this cannot be agreed on, pass it up, I know I sure will from now on.
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